Well YOU certainly overpaid.

 

$7100 for the engine?? Is it worth it?

 

My entire truck was cheaper than that.

 

[QUOTE=bbrad1775;4676053]My entire truck was cheaper than that. [/QUOTE
WOW! Too much money for an engine!

 

I would find a new mechanic. You got taken advantage of. Sorry.

 

So had the P0022, and the rattle and rumble at low rpm when up to temp. I replaced the driver side VCT solenoid today. Seemed promising, I drove around for a couple hours and it ran good, and smoother. I shut it off and made a trip to the mens room, got back to the truck, fired it up, and here comes the rattle, and shake, and stall. Start it back up, get rpm up. Sounds better, but any time I get to lower rpm it starts having a fit again. After 5 minutes or so driving around trying to keep it running at stop lights, it finally clears up and runs good. Drove for quite a while some city and some highway. Ran fine until I shut it off again. It ran like crap the last of my trip home which was only a mile or so from where I stopped for dinner. Clacked all the way into my driveway until I shut it off. When I swapped out the VCT solenoid I looked at timing chain with a flashlight, looks like guides are intact, but chain was loose on lower side. I'm assuming the chain being loose isn't good. The truck runs much better but the fact that it has issues after I shut it off and restart it lets me know I'm not out of the woods yet! I guess I will have to do the chain kit and high pressure oil pump. And Livernois lockout/tuner kit.

 

@coolride , regrettably it's almost impossible to make an accurate assessment of guides / chains from the topside even by removing the valve cover. Perhaps with a bore scope - but then I would not have even known exactly where to focus before I tore mine down.


Having a little chain slack on one side, with engine OFF isn't conclusive. With oil pressure at zero - the springs in the tensioners are not adequate to overcome the forward / backward torque valve springs & rollers exert against toe or heel of a cam lobe on the camshafts - depending on where the engine came to rest when stopped. You could feel a little slack fore or aft of the cam sprocket, and if chains are not stretched or too worn, normal operating oil pressure could extend the tensioner plunger enough on startup - that slack would disappear.


But on mine, the tensioner plungers were FULLY extended and the chains STILL had a small amount of slack in them. The chains had worn to the point the tensioners / tensioner arms simply could not overcome the slack. With ALL the slack pushed to one side, it would pop a P0022 reliably under moderate load / rpm conditions. And still, as you said in post #2684 (this thread), mine also ran really good other than the startup or low RPM chain rattle.


You mentioned 200,000 on the clock. I was at 212,000. That is not at all unreasonable service life out of timing chains OR Phasers. Perhaps if chains slapping around from slack or misfires breaking PLASTIC guides, we could go some distance farther. But in reality it is not all that bad for any engine of any brand whether it has phasers or fixed valve timing. This brings up the question - if you replace everything now, why would you defeat and sacrifice the design advantages of the variable timing feature of your engine. See https://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-r...8/#post4670768 Even two valve (fixed cam) 5.4l owners have to replace chains by around 200 k miles.


JMO

 

I don't feel as if I have been short changed with this. 200K is a good long time for the timing components. I was hoping to avoid this repair but I am realistic, I expected I wouldn't get that lucky.
As for sacrificing design advantages, I don't see any advantage to this system on this particular engine. The engine isn't overly powerful, however low end torque is good, the fuel economy sucks anyway so I have't much to lose there. And I read in a lot of forums how people spent tons of money at Ford putting everything new all OEM and a few months later get phaser noise again. I think the VVT system on this 3 valve engine is a joke. If there is a way I can get rid of it , then I am happy to do so. The Livernois kit costs about $700. It includes a tuner to make the PCM happy. The truck will never rattle or knock from timing things again. It won't buck and carry on, it will just run.
I would feel like there is a benefit if these trucks got good gas mileage or something that made the system outstanding. The only outstanding argument that can be made on this early VVT engine is that the system is finicky and expensive in most cases.
I don't have any issue with those who choose to keep their truck stock. I just have no interest in dealing with anything under that timing cover more than once, and Livernois offers a way to make that happen. I think Ford just has a poor oil pump on these, along with other factors and they are prone to fail.
I will put in a high flow oil pump to save the upper end as it is quiet now, and chains and guides and tensioners will keep it in time better than it probably is now. And phaser locks will prevent future failures in that department.
I may lose MPG, but right now I get 12.5 to 13MPG. I can't picture it being any worse. It is suppose to get 15 to 19. I'm sure its down due to it being sick, out of time and all. So if I get back to 15 and it runs nice I will be very happy!
I'm not trying to argue, please don't take offense, this is just how I see it.

 

Seems you have you're mind made up but I would strongly suggest using new oem phasers and leave it stock. After a complete timing swap and staying on top of oil changes its extremely unlikely you would ever have to mess with it again.

Also by doing the lock out you limit the performance of the 5.4. You're right these engines are not overly powerful so they need everything to be working correctly to get the maximum power. I did a complete timing overhaul and used all Oem parts. Now I have a edge Evo on it and it made a huge difference. Of course I need every once of torque I can get pulling our 27' TT

Good luck what ever you decide

 

"DITTO" please.


Before you make your final decision, please review and consider the article at: http://www.expertswrite.net/tech/31-...-ford-vvt.html


Allow me to list a few things the Livernois kit does NOT DO, in spite of many of their advertising claims.


1). It will NOT increase power (above OEM Phasers). The VVT system only 'Retards' valve timing from the 'normal' or 'idle' position - which is at full advance when the ECU is applying no pulse width modulation to the VCT Solenoids. The Livernois lockouts lock the phasers in the FULL ADVANCE position - best for higher RPM torque, Passing, or heavy throttle where the PCM drops out of closed loop fuel trim employing maximum fuel delivery. (The VVT system sends phasers to full advance under those conditions). (You can test this by simply unplugging both VCT Solenoids, - as that is ALL the ECU does for full advance).
2). The so-called "Tune" provided with the kit is not a Quote "Tune" that gives back the 40 or so lost HP, but defeats the DTC resulting from locking the Phasers.
3). It does NOT prevent chain guide breakage that can occur as a result of misfires or backfireing, or normal wear.
4). It does NOT increase upper end oil pressure or address oil pressure deficiencies.
5). It does NOT address tensioner operation or failures.
6). It will NOT prevent the engine from ever rattling or knocking, or idling rough again, except those sounds resulting from the possible, eventual return of the signature phaser noise at < 800 rpm and < 25% engine load (when no retard is being requested by the PCM).
7). It does NOT effect life expectancy of chains, sprockets tensioners or guides.
8). It does NOT make any provisions for the loss of EGR. Thus combustion temperatures are higher, place more strain on CATS and allows unrestricted production of Nox emissions.
9). Livernois will NOT guarantee your engine will pass emission tests after installing it.

And, if you decide to trade it in, I do not know WHAT type / brand engine to suggest that won't have variable valve timing now days. The newer Ford Coyote has variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust cams - a total of FOUR (4) of them!


Again, I'm not trying to argue and no offense intended, please.