The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Can you shoot a video standing next to the engine with the hood open, and maybe at the front wheel wells? Kinda hard to hear and try to pinpoint with video just inside the cab. To me, from this one it sounds like a combination of exhaust manifold leak and a couple lash adjusters are not opening properly.
I'll get a video with the hood open. What my mechanic could say (with mild certainty) is that the rattling is not due to the the rockers. I haven't looked at any lash adjuster maintenance instruction. Not a clue what it would entail. Time for me to get reading and watching again!
Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 56
Likes: 11
From: Iowa
Guys,
Replacing the timing components , solenoids, oil pumps , etc is only going to buy you some time. Why continue to throw your money away fighting a never ending battle? The underlying issue is that the engine has changed internally and is now unable to deliver proper oil pressure to the phaser that is needed to function properly. We have developed the cam phaser noise repair kit to resolve these dreaded cam phaser issues that all of the 4.6L / 5.4L are going to experience at some point in their lifetime. We take phone calls all day long from guys that seem to have a very similar story with no actual resolution. Most have done some repair previously that was a temporary fix, but it will always come back with time. Many have told us they installed replacement phasers, timing set, solenoids, oil pump, etc just to find the problem returning again and again. The Livernois Motorsports cam phaser noise repair kit is the answer to all of your 3 valve modular engines endless phaser issues.
Typically the engine will run fine at a cold start, and once it reaches operating temperature and comes to a low RPM / idle scenario the issues begin. The engine warms up, oil pressure drops, vehicle comes to a stop sign , and the trouble starts. Begins as an annoying tick / rattle sound which becomes a dieseling. The dieseling eventually leads to drivability issues as one bank becomes out of sync with the other from the phaser not sweeping properly. Most vehicles if left in this condition will start to surge and shake at an idle like the engine's timing is off. DTC codes are also very common when the problem gets passed the noise stage. They throw codes for timing over advanced / retard as the phasers are not operating correctly.
Replacing the timing components , solenoids, oil pumps , etc is only going to buy you some time. Why continue to throw your money away fighting a never ending battle? The underlying issue is that the engine has changed internally and is now unable to deliver proper oil pressure to the phaser that is needed to function properly. We have developed the cam phaser noise repair kit to resolve these dreaded cam phaser issues that all of the 4.6L / 5.4L are going to experience at some point in their lifetime. We take phone calls all day long from guys that seem to have a very similar story with no actual resolution. Most have done some repair previously that was a temporary fix, but it will always come back with time. Many have told us they installed replacement phasers, timing set, solenoids, oil pump, etc just to find the problem returning again and again. The Livernois Motorsports cam phaser noise repair kit is the answer to all of your 3 valve modular engines endless phaser issues.
Typically the engine will run fine at a cold start, and once it reaches operating temperature and comes to a low RPM / idle scenario the issues begin. The engine warms up, oil pressure drops, vehicle comes to a stop sign , and the trouble starts. Begins as an annoying tick / rattle sound which becomes a dieseling. The dieseling eventually leads to drivability issues as one bank becomes out of sync with the other from the phaser not sweeping properly. Most vehicles if left in this condition will start to surge and shake at an idle like the engine's timing is off. DTC codes are also very common when the problem gets passed the noise stage. They throw codes for timing over advanced / retard as the phasers are not operating correctly.
Half truths...
Top end starves for oil because the damn tensioner seals leak out, causing all the issues we have with these motors.
Someone going an replacing their cam phasers and installing your lockout kit is a joke and at best is hiding the true culprit.
So someone replaces their cam phaser and lockout and as you suggest, according to what you have wrote, not replace other stuff that actually caused the problem, now has a ticking time bomb, that will cost them a complete top end overhaul eventually when they lose all their lash adjusters, and rockers, perhaps even worse. I guess they wont be hearing them cam phasers though....Just everything else.
Best word of advice people.. Do the job right, and use the older 16 valve steel tensioners. Better built and low fail rate compared to the plastic pieces of crap.
Mike
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 354
Likes: 35
From: USA
Not sure if its just how the camera is recording it but
that rattle noise is louder with you sitting in the cab than mine was standing outside the cab.
There may be exhaust ticking noise combined into the mix but that rattle drowns it out.
.
that rattle noise is louder with you sitting in the cab than mine was standing outside the cab.
There may be exhaust ticking noise combined into the mix but that rattle drowns it out.
.
Last edited by Fordjunkync; Jul 14, 2015 at 02:20 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 354
Likes: 35
From: USA
Interesting little magazine 2013 write up.
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/112013_09.pdf
Also ran across this which some may find useful.
Nothing special here but where I found the post above.
http://www.justanswer.com/ford/85htr...-pressure.html
.
http://www.motor.com/magazine/pdfs/112013_09.pdf
Also ran across this which some may find useful.
Originally Posted by POSTED BY SOMEONE ONLINE
5.4 ford 3 valve engine has good oil pressure, but the passenger side chain tensioner has no pressure at it. the engine has 23k on it and the chain is rubbing the cover put a new tensioner on and same problem.
Found there was a piece of gray silicon stuck in the VTC oil port that went to the tensioner. Got it out put everything back together. Everything nice and quiet.
Found there was a piece of gray silicon stuck in the VTC oil port that went to the tensioner. Got it out put everything back together. Everything nice and quiet.
http://www.justanswer.com/ford/85htr...-pressure.html
.
Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 68
Likes: 4
Well I overcame my fear of this job. Installed new chains, guides and tensioners. The tensioner gaskets were clearly leaking. New tensioners have a silicon o ring type gasket much superior to to original . Passenger side chain was stretched and the drivers side chain was hitting the timing cover. Truck sounds beautiful now.
Did not need to remove any followers. Used curved jaw vise grips to rotate the left cam a bit when installing the chains. Only requirement is the tool to correctly position the crank at TDC and a harmonic balancer installer and puller.
Previously I had installed the Livernois lockouts, which got rid of the typical diesel sound, but the engine still had problems at startup for about 90 seconds.
Did not need to remove any followers. Used curved jaw vise grips to rotate the left cam a bit when installing the chains. Only requirement is the tool to correctly position the crank at TDC and a harmonic balancer installer and puller.
Previously I had installed the Livernois lockouts, which got rid of the typical diesel sound, but the engine still had problems at startup for about 90 seconds.
Last edited by NOTAGT; Jul 19, 2015 at 09:42 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 354
Likes: 35
From: USA
Its not a requirement.
Other
The vicegrips is simply understood but
just slightly turning the crank a tad while keeping a little hand pressure on the phaser will let it pop onto the pin.
.
Other
The vicegrips is simply understood but
just slightly turning the crank a tad while keeping a little hand pressure on the phaser will let it pop onto the pin.
.
Last edited by Fordjunkync; Jul 15, 2015 at 08:19 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 354
Likes: 35
From: USA
FYI for anyone who may be interested.
NOTE: Check the filter in hand to be certain of bypass location.
This what Ive found so take it for what it is.
the FL820S filter has the bypass on the threaded end so to "help" (along with the anti-drain back valve ADBV) from backwashing the captured material back into the oil pan.
Anti-drain back valves in general have been known to stick open/deform.
The silicone ADBV (anti-drain back valve) are more reliable of sealing.
"Some" of the crossed over oil filters are not designed with the bypass on the threaded end & why its so much influenced to use the stock FL820S filter.
Motorcraft STANDARD Oil Filter: FL820S
- Number of pleats = 43
- Number of circulation holes = 6
- Overall media area 156 square inches.
- Bypass valve on the threaded "base" end.
- Silicone ADBV (check valve)
- Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Paper filter
80% efficiency at 20 microns (from Ford literature)
Burst Strength 275psi
Bypass valve setting 16psi
Max flow rate 11-13 GPM
Motorcraft "FORDRACING" Oil Filter: CM-6731-FL820
- Number of pleats = 63
- Number of circulation holes = 8
- Overall media area 283 square inches.
- Bypass valve on the threaded "base" end.
- Silicone ADBV (check valve)
- Thread size 22mm x 1.5
synthetic filter
99% efficiency at 20 microns
Burst Strength 626psi
Bypass valve setting 17-23psi
Purolator PureOne 24651
(Bypass valve IS on the base threaded end)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Mopar MO899
(Bypass valve IS on the base threaded end)
(but has a black nitrite ADBV valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
AmsoilEAO11
98.7% efficiency at 20 microns
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Royal Purple 20-820
99% efficiency at 25 microns
80% efficiency at 10 microns
synthetic filter
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
WIX 51372
95% @ 25 micron
Number of pleats = 59
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Burst Strength 275psi
Bypass valve setting 16psi
Max flow rate 11-13 GPM
K&N HP2010
Number of circulation holes = 8
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Mobil1 M1 210 aka K&N HP-2010
synthetic filter
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
FRAM Ultra Synthetic XG2
Number of circulation holes = 8
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Carquest CQ R85372-A43301
Number of pleats = 41
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
(has a black nitrite ADBV valve)
Other
The Mopar MO899 filter is designed the same internally as the FL820S. (Pictures by Jonny- on a Mopar forum)
.
NOTE: Check the filter in hand to be certain of bypass location.
This what Ive found so take it for what it is.
the FL820S filter has the bypass on the threaded end so to "help" (along with the anti-drain back valve ADBV) from backwashing the captured material back into the oil pan.
Anti-drain back valves in general have been known to stick open/deform.
The silicone ADBV (anti-drain back valve) are more reliable of sealing.
"Some" of the crossed over oil filters are not designed with the bypass on the threaded end & why its so much influenced to use the stock FL820S filter.
Motorcraft STANDARD Oil Filter: FL820S
- Number of pleats = 43
- Number of circulation holes = 6
- Overall media area 156 square inches.
- Bypass valve on the threaded "base" end.
- Silicone ADBV (check valve)
- Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Paper filter
80% efficiency at 20 microns (from Ford literature)
Burst Strength 275psi
Bypass valve setting 16psi
Max flow rate 11-13 GPM
Motorcraft "FORDRACING" Oil Filter: CM-6731-FL820
- Number of pleats = 63
- Number of circulation holes = 8
- Overall media area 283 square inches.
- Bypass valve on the threaded "base" end.
- Silicone ADBV (check valve)
- Thread size 22mm x 1.5
synthetic filter
99% efficiency at 20 microns
Burst Strength 626psi
Bypass valve setting 17-23psi
Purolator PureOne 24651
(Bypass valve IS on the base threaded end)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Mopar MO899
(Bypass valve IS on the base threaded end)
(but has a black nitrite ADBV valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
AmsoilEAO11
98.7% efficiency at 20 microns
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Royal Purple 20-820
99% efficiency at 25 microns
80% efficiency at 10 microns
synthetic filter
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
WIX 51372
95% @ 25 micron
Number of pleats = 59
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Burst Strength 275psi
Bypass valve setting 16psi
Max flow rate 11-13 GPM
K&N HP2010
Number of circulation holes = 8
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Mobil1 M1 210 aka K&N HP-2010
synthetic filter
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
FRAM Ultra Synthetic XG2
Number of circulation holes = 8
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
Silicone ADBV (check valve)
Thread size 22mm x 1.5
Carquest CQ R85372-A43301
Number of pleats = 41
(Bypass valve on the dome end (not the base threaded end)
(has a black nitrite ADBV valve)
Other
The Mopar MO899 filter is designed the same internally as the FL820S. (Pictures by Jonny- on a Mopar forum)
.
Last edited by Fordjunkync; Apr 8, 2018 at 04:27 AM.