The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound
 

Ever since hearing my first 5.4 Tick, I have been online looking for an answer.

The First truck I did, I changed the phasers (one of them had the spring "sprung") Noise went away for 2 months and came back, just not as loud.

Upon inspecting the phasers again, all looked okay, but I read about oiling problem, possible sludge, other issues.

Could the 5.4 just be this big of a pile of junk? NO! I didnt buy it. Why are some people getting 300,000 miles and others so few??

I noticed that the one chain had slack, when I removed the tensioner I saw the seal was questionable. Could this have been causing low oil pressure to the VCT system and a tick? Or was the new tick the chain not pumping up fully?

Well the chain set and tesioners fixed it. Its been almost a year and the truck runs great!

Reasons you get a 5.4 Tick
(other than normal injector noise)

-Bad Phasers
-Bad chains or guides
-Low oil pressure to phasers (most often the failing tesioners!!)
-Failing tesioners not putting proper tension on chain
-valve train problems (sticking lash adjuster, bad roller rocker, broken valve spring)

Now the good news, this can all be fixed during the same service!!

Don't just pull the valve covers, change phasers and hope the problem goes away.
Lets check all the possible trouble spots and fix your truck properly.

Please do not buy the "sludge is making your engine tick, you need a new one"

Look for sludge, if extreme sludge is present after removing the valve covers, it could be true, but many techs are telling customers this and IT IS NOT TRUE. Low oil pressure is often caused by these pesky tensioners, I have seen it more than once.

My next post will be a complete guide to repairing it, If you don't want to tackle it yourself, print this guide and show it to the tech working on your truck.

I know from being a mechanic, we don't like customers telling us whats wrong. Do yourself a solid, and make the tech aware of the problems.

Too many people are getting ripped off by a $1200.00 Phaser job that fixes nothing, or a simple "you need a new engine"

...Please wait I will upload photos and post the guide below this

This guide was meant to help people attempting to repair, please dont attempt to do this if you are not comfortable. Always follow a service manual and double check all specs.

This is a basic guide, not step by step, but if you are mechanical contains all pertinent info

-Disconnect Battery.
-Remove all Items in the was of the front cover (like the belt, power steering, fan, and other stuff in your way)
-remove crank pully
-remove the valve covers

Great time to check the rocker and lash adjusters!! (possible reason for tick)
Check all rollers for wear, feel for pumped down lash adjuster.
May be good practice to replace. (i have a guide available for that if any of you are attempting this)

-Remove all bolts for chain covers and remove

-NEXT remove all parts in order of their number on the following pictures!

Attachment 504390
Attachment 504391
Attachment 504392
Attachment 504393



Now! Lets Check for broken stuff!

Check seals on both Tensioners! If one is blown out or cracked, Bingo!

Next check Phasers (A-is still good B-Messed up! I reccomend replacing both no matter what, but its your time)


Visually inspect the camshaft phaser and sprocket for squareness (A). If the trigger wheel or spring is deformed or damaged (B), install a new camshaft phaser and sprocket.

Attachment 504394
Attachment 504395
Inspect for missing or worn roll pin.

DO NOT RE USE PHASER BOLT! THROW AWAY AND BUY A NEW ONE IF YOU ARE USING OLD PHASER (now one comes with bolt btw)

Now lets put it back together!!! This guide is for use with new parts (chain, tesioner and guides. Some steps changed if reusing parts... but DONT DO THAT, we are trying to fix your engine)

Install the camshaft variable timing sprocket assembly and loosely install a new bolt and washer.
CAUTION: Only use hand tools to install the camshaft phaser sprocket assembly or damage may occur to the camshaft or camshaft phaser unit.
CAUTION: Damage to the camshaft phaser sprocket assembly will occur if mishandled or used as a lifting or leveraging device.

Attachment 504380

• Stage 1: Tighten to 40 Nm (30 ft. lbs.).
• Stage 2: Tighten an additional 90 degrees.

Repeat the previous steps for the LH camshaft phaser sprocket.

Attachment 504381

Install guides and torque.
Install the crankshaft sprocket, making sure the flange faces forward.

Attachment 504382
Position the lower end of the LH (inner) timing chain on the crankshaft sprocket, aligning the timing mark on the outer flange of the crankshaft sprocket with the single copper (marked) link on the chain.

NOTE: Make sure the upper half of the timing chain is below the tensioner arm dowel.

Attachment 504383

Position the timing chain on the camshaft sprocket with the camshaft sprocket timing mark positioned between the two copper (marked) chain links.


NOTE: The LH timing chain tensioner arm has a bump near the dowel hole for identification.


Attachment 504384
Position the LH timing chain tensioner arm on the dowel pin and install the LH timing chain tensioner.

Remove the retaining clip from the LH timing chain tensioner.

Attachment 504385

Position the lower end of the RH (outer) timing chain on the crankshaft sprocket, aligning the timing mark on the sprocket with the single copper (marked) chain link.

NOTE: The lower half of the timing chain must be positioned above the tensioner arm dowel.

Attachment 504386
Position the RH timing chain on the camshaft sprocket. Make sure the camshaft sprocket timing mark is positioned between the two copper (marked) chain links.

Attachment 504387


Note: The camshaft phaser and sprocket will be stamped with one of the illustrated timing marks for the RH camshaft.

Position the RH timing chain tensioner arm on the dowel pin and install the RH timing chain tensioner.

Remove the retaining clip from the RH timing chain tensioner.
NOTE: Both camshaft phaser sprockets are identical, refer to the R timing mark to identify the RH camshaft phaser sprocket and the L timing mark to identify the LH camshaft phaser sprocket.

Attachment 504388

As a post-check, verify correct alignment of all timing marks. Make sure the R and L timing marks on the sprockets correspond with the above note.

Install the crankshaft sensor ring on the crankshaft.

Attachment 504389

NEXT I WILL POST PART NUMBERS AND ROCK AUTO PRICES

ROCK AUTO

Timing Chain Set
Part # 90391SB ($189.00 both chains, tesioners, guides, lower sprocket) Made by Cloves... Very nice quality

Front Crank Seal
Part # TCS46117 ($5.36) Fel-Pro

Cam Phasers
Part # 917250 ($139.19 each so X2) Comes with new bolt

$474.36 total.... Dont forget about the 5% off rock auto too :)

You wont see the crank seal in this guide, but its in the front engine cover!

Also- DONT FORGET TO PUT ENGINE TO TDC

Here is a picture of bolt locations on front cover
Attachment 504379

This calls for about 10 shop hours so TAKE YOUR TIME
and I reccomend blue loctite on all bolts inside timing cover except phaser

Great comprehensive write up. Kudo's. One question though. Do you have a p/n for the tensioner seal? If you go that far, I would change that seal as a part of the job!

The seals are included in the chain kit. They will be installed on the new tensioner.
Very important to change this part, as a leak in the seal will cause the chain to not tension properly and the oil pissing out of there reduces oil pressure to the top of the motor.

Good write up.......

Its worth considering new gaskets for the front cover and valve covers but these are good thick types and can be re-used if okay.

Factor in Oil and filter change at the same time. (air fitler and throttle body clean too maybe).

Clean and visually check cam sensors and crank sensor.

Pullies and serpentine belt

New coolant

Adequate puller for the crank pulley

Torque wrench that allows light torque for camshaft and timing parts 89 inch pounds in not a lot!

May be a good time to do your spark plugs too with better access with the valve covers removed!

Awesome tips!
I know I just covered the very basics, and as I think of more I will add it.

This write up is nice because if you are doing the labour you can do it for under 600$

one question, please!
did you demount the engine? if not, what did you removed? radiator? condenser?

Great Write Up!!!!!!
 

This is fantastic. I want to get this done this spring. I have a question.. starting up the engine when the job is complete, I see that some guys have had the timing jump on them....is this something I, or we, should be concerned with?..Sorry for all the questions I just want to make sure I do this right...I don't know if the problem is if the engine is under compression or if it is something else...thanks...and again fantastic write up..Cheers..Spike24

That was a fantastic write up. I'm about to do the same exact thing I do have excess chain slack and do Have a tick.and some chain slap sometimes at startup .. not injectors ..at full warm .. I believe that's what's causing the issue with this motor. Its a very good design. And will last but the basic public doesn't have the knowledg..that we motor heads have. And ford. $$$$$ doesnt want anyone to figire it out.U should write this article up and sell it lmao

Hey guys.

I will try to best answer your questions from my blackberry here.
You don't have to remove the engine. After removing fan, power steering pump, and other small crap in the way, there is enough room to work.
AC does have to be decharged.

As for timing chain slack. With new tight chains, it should not be able to jump. Only when the chain is worn badly.
Even at that there are 2 good practices
1. Always turn engine over by hand a few fell revolutions to ensure there is no piston to valve contact (just use a socket and ratchet)
2. Remove pcm fuse and crank engine for 10 seconds before attempting to start to build some initial oil pressure.

Sticky!!!!!

cam phaser solenoids LOOK!!
 

hi i recently bought a 2004 f150 lariat its a nice truck but it had the phaser noise sounds like a deisel my buddys keep asking if its a deisel it was annoying so anyway i researched it and found a thread someone had their pasers fixed and still the sound was ther so this guy replaced the cam phaser selenoids they control the oil flow to the phaser so i took this furthur i ran a couple 500 mi oil changes with sea foam in the oil and replaced the solenoids for $133 per side GUESS WHAT ALMOST NO NOISE!!!!! MY TRUCK HAS 150000 MI ON IT AND THIS WORKED shur beats 2300 at the stealership!!! i just did this to my truck this week including a rear diff fluid change to royal purple 75 140 witch fixed a rearend shutter i had im no mechanic or tech or anything but i can turn a wrench and this worked sofar for me im very happy with the results !!!!

Subscribed.

Great write up! My question is how you know if a lash adjuster or roller follower is bad. Ive never seen a good one or a bad one. Is it really obvious or do I need a micrometer? What should I look for?

This is great, my buddy has 140k on his and a horrible tick, but im at 80k and only a light tick. And i would die if mine sounded like his hahah.
Anyways , im very handy with just abt any tool u show me but would you have any advice for me for learning what each part and its components does and how it functions before i jump into this and make a costly mistake? Thanks!

Cam followers/rockers just look for wear on them. The only real way to check them is to remove them with the tool and turn the roller portion and check the bearing.

The lash adjuster is harder, you can check to see if any bleed down after the motor sits for a while.

When in doubt and its open, replace them.

Nice write up! This looks like something me and and my buddy can do over the weekend to fix the noise on my truck! Thanks!

Just to let everyone know the sound will more than likely come back... at least the normal noises these phasers make.

what did you mean with come back????

Mines at 100k and the noise has always been there. Its hasnt gotten any worse and from the little drag races I have done it does not affect performance. Now some may be worse than others but I always considered mine on the loud side. Some peolple may be over reacting on the urgency of the repair fact is that if it truly is the famous ticking then in my experience it is not detremental to longevity or performance....knock on wood lol.

that is where i am at to, truck runs great, can't here it inside the cab, bought it with 28k on it the tick has always been there not got worse or better, question should i be concerned

Cam phasers do make noise on tip in, this is normal. Most engine have some sort of noise at idle, I would not be worried if you can only hear it outside beside the engine or in a drive thru.
This repair is done when the noise is "Diesel-ish"
some of these loud tick you hear on the youtube videos... this is not "normal"
and the 5.4 is not suppose to make this noise!!

After the repair, this adresses a few reasons I have seen them tick.

The phasesrs are not aways worn. The phasers and the chains will make noise if the oil pressure is low due to blown seals or the chain is slack causing slap.

You guys know your trucks. obviously take this guide with a grain of salt and diagnose the problem before starting anything, so not to waste yoiu time and money :)

Agree that these engines do make ticking noises even when running perfectly, the chances are its the injectors and a little phaser or valvetrain noise. Having had the major ticking and chain slapping noise and then replacing everything, the noise I am left with is the injectors......this is no problem. Worn chains, tensioners, guides, phasers, lifters and rockers are a problem and your shouldn't delay too long in sorting this out......and as mentioned, don't just do the phasers, its false ecconomy and a big job to get that far into the engine.

I just ran my truck up to a place north of Dallas from Houston after doing the timing gear and got 15mpg when the same journey 2 months ago saw 12mpg......probably timing related based on crap hydraulics!

a pic of a good and bad rocker - but as S_Vares states - change them all if you are taking on this job, same with lifters! At 100K+ miles, its good sense to do this job once, if want another 100k+ out of the truck!

thanks guy, great write up all info is helpful

I do believe ford wouldn't allow these engines roll out of the factory. With excessive ticking or banging. Unless Theres a conspiracy . With a parts manufacture for that motor ... I. Myself am gonna do this job mentioned. My chains are slack. And do have a single tick at how idle and chain noise also. 145k on it. I work for a company that supplys. Ford with power seat components for there f150. And nothing bad passes out the door. Or production stops. Or we get fined from the company we r supplying . Just my opinion

Yes! this is a problem coming on some higher milage 5.4
Mine is quiet and smooth at 100,000miles but im doing the chains this summer as its not a horrible job, and will save me problems in the future.

Ive got it down to about 5 hours including refilling ac now.

CORRECT. !!!! I'm gathering parts now from rockauto. . To save me from a 6000 motor replacement. I love this truck. Want it to last for years

Double and triple check your timing marks and that bolt tightness before putting timing cover on!!
Thats my tip of the day ;)

Thank you for this s_vares. I will be ordering parts this week. My 04 screw now has 165,000 on it and has had the phaser knock for the last 100k or so. Just recently I noticed the timming chan slap at start up and occasionaly when accelerating lightly from a stop. What else should be replaced when this deep into it? Water pump? Also is it necessary to lock the cams in place , or just start from tdc and make sure evrything is lined up when finished per your diagrams?

A little off topic, do any of you guys have the part # for the vct solenoid, flange, gasket,. I can't find it, or remember the proper part name.

The marks and links on the chain will help you line up the timing without it being at TDC.

You can insure the cams dont turn by putting vice grips on them (spots in between lobes)

The old saying. Measure twice cut once

One question. .... do the phazers free wheel on end of. Cam or is there a pin on inside of phaser

Its keyed and will only fit on one spot.

Ok how long does it take just to fix the tensioners not the cam phazxers? Is it same amount of hrs?

Probably longer. You have to remove the front cover to get to the tensioners.

Is it harder work? I do have a mechanical family but I don't want to mess with the timing does it still mess with the timing to change the tensioners

Since u have it opened up replace all components. Or. Just replaceTensioners and guides. Leave chains in place .. if you have high mileage. Chains do stretch and if phazers are original. Replace everything. . .. chains tensioners guides crank sprocket. Phazers. Rock auto. Com has a timing kit. In clues all except phazers ... kit is 187.00. I'm about to do what I just mentioned above

Amen.

Its about 3 hours more work to change everthing, but so worth it.
Dont have to worry about it and engine is ready for another 200,000

I am in the process of doing the phasers, and the whole timing kit with chains and tensioners etc. How easy is it to tell if the lash adjuster is bad or has pumped down? Is it movable by hand if its bad? Thank you

you will be able to move the rocker freely if its pumped down.
its hard to tell on them, if its collapsed then replace it. when in doubt, replace all.

Thank you they all seem good. I can't budge them. The seals on the tensioners were trash and drivers side chain was tight on inside half and pretty loose on outside half. Was slapping the cover pretty good on that side

Good job, looks like you found the problem.
You will feel much better doing it yourself.

If you read my tips, you will see i like to use a dab of blue loctite on all bolts INSIDE the timing cover. Just extra insurance that they will stay put :)

Ok, well I am halfway through. got all the covers off and old chains tensioners ect. pulled out. Will bgin reinstall in the morning. Quite a project as i am no mechanic, just a guy who fixes things when they are broke. It has taken me a day and a half to this point.

observations so far : got the left side cover off without unhooking ac. to do this I pulled the battery and battery holder then unbolted the accumulater and any associated line mounts. Then I pulled everything up and back until i got clearence. I am sure putting the cover back on will be just as big a pain in the a**.

My chains were looose and the tensioners shot but no damage was done. The seals on the tensioners were completely flattend out. The bolts were tight, probaly tourqued down too tight at the factory.

The cams an followers all appear to be in good shape and I can't move the followers down so I hope this means the lash adjusters are good

Truck has 165,000 on it and I have owned it since new. In preperation for this project I did and autorx flush beginning about 6,000 miles ago. Now I don't know if this stuff is snake oil or not but the engine is absoulutly clean. I was very surprised by this. I have always used mobil 1 but was not diligent enough about oil changes. Will be from now on.

Not sure about this but my old crank sprocket just slid right off and the new one easily slides back on the crank? Does not appear to be any damage to the crank or key? I at least expected this to be a tap fit.

I will post final results in a day or two

S_Vares,

Ran into a little problem, The rh chain guide that came in the cloyes kit is a little different. It did not come withe the top bolt bushing, so I popped the bushing out of the old one and noticed that the molded plastic depth setting for the bushing on the new cloyes guide is much lower than the original guide. The left guide is ok but both are stamped 2v while my origanals are stamped 2v/3v. Have you noticed this? As much as I hate to I am probably going to put the old guide back in cause I just don't trust the way the bushing sits in the new one. If this guide came with a shorter bushing than I think the factory bolt would be too long.

Thanks

I have not had a problem with the cloves kit before, I do remember the guides looking a little different.
Did you use Part # 9-0391SB?
Maybe call cloves and ask them. Otherwise, reusing the old one is not the end of the world, but it shouldnt be nescessary.

There was in fact a smaller bushing, it had fallen out and into the open bag of the tensioners. I found it while installing the tensoiners. The cloyes kit is fine just my oversight.

thanks again for your help

this should be made into a sticky

yes i agree i get tired of trying to find

Absolutely. !!! Sticky. !!

OH! good to hear, I was starting to feel like an ass for recommending that kit. Ive used it with no issues on many cars, and the quality always seems like OEM or better.

Did you get her cranked up yet? Im happy to see everyone fixing it right with good outcome.

Fired right back up!!! So far no more phaser knocking. I have only idled it to temperature as I decided to replace the upper and lower radiator hoses and do a system flush. Trying to get trapped air out of the system now.

Few notes for others: Re installing the passenger side valve cover was much easier than getting it off. I taped the back half cover bolts in the up position with electical tape. This allowed it to slide in easier without getting hung up. I think if I had to do it again, I would pull these bolts before removing the cover. That with loosening the accumulater as I did would make that cover come out fairly easy. Just had no desire to recover and recharge the system.

I found the power steering bracket not to bad to deal with. Just back it out about 3/4 of the way and the bracket will slip right off.

The back passenger valve cover bolt was the hardest to get to. I needed an extension between the sizes i had. Wound up useing a knuckle and breaking the bolt on reinstall. Hopefully it won't leak.

Make sure you reinstall the crank sensor into the timming cover before reinstall. I forgot and wound up having to drop the ac compressor to gain clearence.

Thanks again s_vares for putting toghether all this info.

Good to hear! How did you know the engine was at TDC when you pulled the chains? I've seen pictures of cam lobes but they arent clear to me.

Thanks!

You do not necessarily have to have it at exactly tdc. I lined up the harmonic balancer notch to the mark on the engine block. When I pulled the covers off, the crankshaft key was at about 10 o'clock. I verified the "r" and "LH" marks on the cam phaser sprockets were facing up on the correct side (each phaser has both markings). If they were opposite of what they should be you would need to rotate the crank 1 full turn. I then turned the crank to get the key to 12 o'clock. (like the diagram s-vares posted) This makes it a bit easier to see the chain alignment mark on the crank sprocket. Since the cam phase sprockets are pinned to the camshafts they can only go on 1 way. All you have to do is make sure the colored chain links line up with the marks and the mark on the crank sprocket. The cams are under spring pressure and will move when you pull off the chains and sprocket. No big deal, I just turned them back to position when reinstalling the phasers.

Just went on a 5 mile test run. So much better. More power and smoother when accelerating than before. I do not hear any knocking noise from inside the cab like i used to at idle. There is still a very slight knocking if i get out and really listen. The chain slap is completly gone as well.

Some of you have have ticking, listen in your front wheel wells. Studs on the exhaust manifold like to break and they are hard to see, these manifold crack too :) Injectors on these trucks make noise.

Another question here, all parts finally in and wondering do I have to have the special tool that it shows to use on all data for the crank seal on timing cover? Or any tips or tricks if I don't have it? Thank you

No, you can punch out the seal after the cover has been removed. To reinstall use a big socket to tap in or something with a similar diameter. (i used the old seal and a block of wood)

Awesome sounds good. That was my plan I was just making sure it was an OK one. Thank you

This needs to be a sticky... Thanks for this compilation.

I got a question for this, my truck runs great but there is some phaser noise that seems normal. Question is when Im in gear, anything except N or P under light acceleration there is a horrible clanking, what do think. Replace the chains, tensioners, and guides only? Like I said truck runs like its new just makes horrid noise under light acceleration only in gear

I was just starting to look up this info, how many miles are you starting to hear this noise, i have an 07 screw with 44k and some days it sounds like a friggin diesel...

all right guys could use some input finally listened to my truck when it is ticking, does not tick on start up but ticks pretty loud at idle warmed up and then goes away above 1200 RPMs, the ticking is defiantly louder on drivers side, i going to do this soon, question would you just do it all when it is torn apart or just what is needed thanks

Always do it all. Take oil pressure readings before you take it apart to ensure its not low. If it is low, you must find a reason why when you pull it down. Tensioner seals are common. If you find nothing wrong, it could be bottom end.

how do you take your oil pressure reading

you can read the oil pressue at the factory sending unit location with a T

Here is a TSB from Ford:

21574 4.6L 3V/ 5.4L 3V ENGINE TICK/RATTLE FROM VCT 800-1200 RPM - DO NOT ATTEMPT SERVICE
2009-2010 F-150 WITH 4.6L 3V, 2005-2010 F150 WITH 5.4L 3V,2005-2010 MUSTANG WITH 4,6L 3V, 2005-2010 F250, F350 WITH 5.4L3V, 2006-2010 EXPLORER/MOUNTAINEER WITH 4.6L 3V ENGINE, 2007-2010 SPORT TRAC WITH 4.6L 3V ENGINE, AND 2005-2011 EXPEDITIONS AND NAVIGATORS WITH 5.4L 3V ENGINES. SOME CUSTOMERS MAY BE CONCERNED WITH TICK/RATTLE NOISES FROM THE VARIABLE CAM TIMING (VCT) ON LIGHT TIP-IN ACCEL BETWEEN 800-1200 RPM. THIS CONDITION MAY BE MOST NOTICEABLE OPERATING VEHICLE IN CONFINED AREAS SUCH AS A DRIVE-THRU. THE NOISE IS ELIMINATED WHEN VCT SOLENOIDS ARE UNPLUGGED. THIS CONDITION SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A NORMAL CHARACTERISTIC OF THE ENGINE. DO NOT ATTEMPT ENGINE REPAIRS TO CHANGE THIS NORMAL CONDITION. THIS CONDITION DOES NOT AFFECT PERFORMANCE OR DURABILITY OF THE ENGINE.


A light tick or rattle at 800 - 1200 RPM, on light tip in of the throttle as noted above, is the VCT solenoids cycling oil pressure to the phasers once the engine is warm, completely normal. Now a pronounced knock is not normal.

mine is going to the garage on Monday to start on the ticking noise, new cam phasers, timing chains the whole bit will cost about $1,100.00, it may not be an issue but i want to get it done for my piece of mind, i love my truck and want to keep it for a long time yet

People pay 1100.00 just to change the phasers.
I think your doing pretty good!

yes i am extremely happy about that, i was turned down by tow mechanics one actually hung up on me, question for you guys i have 112k while he has it torn down should i do coil packs right away or wait till they go bad

Coil packs are easy to do separate from this project. I would do them after you finish the first project and are sure that everything is working properly. It will help you isolate problems that way.

On higher milers I like to do lash adjusters and rockers.
Easy while its open :)

S_vares, do you have a separate procedure for the lash adjusters and rockers? I saw a ford training vid where they used a spring compressor and rotated the cams to different positions to pull off the rockers in sequences? I read another post somewhere where a guy just loosened the cam caps from the back, leaving the front bracket tight and pulled them out this way. How do you do them?

S_vares.
Thank you for all the great info.
I'm in the process of trying to narrow down my own 5.4l noises.
I've had several 5.4's in the past and always just lived with the noises.
How ever I got another one that's new to me recently.
2005 screw with 180k miles on it. I bought it with high miles. Just a good deal.
The engine runs with no noise at all besides the injectors. Quietest one I've heard pretty much.
How ever it has a very quick and loud sound (never the same twice) that sounds like all the parts you've describe for replace in the posts above.
Just wondering if you have ever had a 5.4 that can some time sound like the cam timing is all over the place and valves floating everywhere upon start up. Then run perfectly with zero knock or anything questionable after oil pressure gets through the engine.
I am preparing to do the cam phasers, chains and tentioners. Just don't want to be attacking the wrong thing.
Any input you can offer would be great as far as how to verify that those parts are the cause of the problem.
Thanks again for taking the time to put up all the info. I'm sure it will make the job go a lot better.

Thanks ahead.

Cheers

I payed 474 and using s_vares as a remote mechanic and doing it myself :P

i am happy for you but i just don't trust myself to do it, i am happy to spend this kind of money with someone i trust, it is better than paying 6k for new engine

I understand. I'm down to the hard stuff ATM but I've ripped engines apart before. Just mostly broke ones for fun :P. I have my dad coming over I help fix the timing shiot once it's all tore apart and I have s_vares on motherf'ing speedial! Incase anything doesn't look right.

I use the compressor, but if you have the chain off somewhere near TDC, you can just remove the cam and change them. This is easy if your into this service.
Remember to soak the lash adjusters in oil overnight before installing them.

i show the mechanic this story as well it really help him understand what we are trying to accomplish s_vares did a great job making everyone aware of this

on cold startup hearing some chain noise has become a somewhat normal on newer OHC engines with chains.
Reason is, after sitting, tesioners slack and the chain becomes loose. This will me noticed more so on older engines that have chain strectch and aging tensioners.
You may also be hearing lash adjuster bleed down. After a few seconds they pump back up.
This is the reason why you hear all these people speak of using OEM motorcraft filters (I often use WIX or Napa Gold as well)
They have a superior anti drainback valve which helps with these cold starts and alows the various hydralics to pump up faster.
if your getting rattle at startup, a new chain and set may or may not fix it. With your milage I would do a chain regardless.
Just because timing chain engines dont have an interval to replace, does not mean they last forever. I usually say 150,000 miles to be safe.

Hope this helps :)
-Steve

Hahaha, too bad I wasnt closer, eh? <----- in Canada

How is your coming along? Do you have any updates??

starting monday will keep you guys posted, i might be PM you just to keep him on his toes

Well done to all you guys doing this work yourself or at least researching this issue on here before throwing money at Ford to change phasers.

I have to lump on some more praise for Steve (S_Varres) he has pretty much driven this thread and kept a lot of us on the right path.

I totally agree with his thinking of do this type of job right first time, which means doing it all! Timing gear and rockers and lifters......I never want to take that damned passenger side rocker cover off again! Ever!

I used Ford parts as I wanted to them quicly and my local place in Houston did a good job of getting stuff quickly and I got 20% so called discount. All in, I think I spent about $2000 in parts and AC recharge.

Phasers x2
Chains x 2
Guides both sides
Tensioners x 2
Bottom sprocket
Lash adjusters x 23
Rockers x 24
Oil x 2
Oil Filter
Air Filter
Throttle body cleaner
Cam phaser solenoids x 2
Solenoid seals x 2
Spark plugs x 8
A/C recharge

Oil selction and Motorcraft filter is essential too!

I have 170,000 and the engine is as quiet now as brand new truck.

I ended up changing the injectors and seals too. You may find the higher mileage engines need to relearn the idle etc after diconnecting the battery, so be ready to give that a good clean.

I have printed all material from this thread and put it in a binder so i can refer back to it

Keep posting your success stories, tips and tricks are great too. Helps us all out, even if you take it to a shop, good to know fair going rates and what parts were found damaged and worn!

:) as always, PM me or text me if you need advice.

Just remember if you are in the states and do not have a plan capable of calling Canada you WILL be charged!!!! Lol :SMH:

Here is a good one for you all. My wife and I just bought a 05 expedition with the 5.4L. I knew of the cam phaser problems, so when we bought it the shop had just done the phasers, chains, guides, arms. It has 118300 miles on it. We bought it and drove MAYBE 300 miles since its our second vehicle. Well the noise came back, along with it running really rough when fully warm. It also dies on us when we let off the gas when its fully warm, which kind of sucks in rush hour traffic. So I took it back to the place that worked on it the first time. They open it back up and say the tensioners are bad and replace them. They drive it about 30 miles and same thing. So they end up taking it to ford and ford hooks it up the their idf or whatever computer. Incorrect timing bank 1 and low oil pressure causing the cam phasers to not work correctly. They say we need a new engine.
So since everything with the timing has been changed and they have to retime it, should I have them look at the lash adjusters and all that. They said they looked at the vct sensors and they had the screens on them still and they "cleaned out" the valve body under them. They also said one of the guides were broken when they fixed it, so could that of went to the oil pump and not pieces are getting clogged on the pick up screen?
They said they hooked up a manual pressure gauge and it was all over the place, but never got under the 12 psi to put it into low oil pressure mode or whatever. As of right now I am stumped and am a little pi**ed that they say we need a engine with not even 119K miles on it and only maybe 500 miles from us.

Everyone chip in 10 bucks for vares to make a video of this!!! Lol would make me feel so much better abt doing it!

Let me tell you this. The extent of my engine work has been before age 16 messing with engines my dad took out of cars...since then air filters, oil, and spark plugs. I have gotten mine tore down and all new parts put on waiting for one part that was unexpectedly damaged so I can rebuild it! YOU CAN DO IT! At least if you have another car to drive..

Well, sounds like something else is causing the pressure problem. This is your main issue.
I would pull the pan down and look. You might have a bad sludge issue :(

You are a rock star buddy!
Great work so far :)

Thank you!

I'm sooooo sad that u have to wait till Tuesday to have that part....it I had it today the truck would be back together by now im sure! I accidentally left the old one at the ford dealership so I hope the new piece is the right one...at least I got a pic of it...

This thread has been awesome, just learned so much. Thank you.
My 07 has 120,000km on it and since my last oil change I've noticed a bit more chain slap but that's it. I had a concern about the, what I thought was excessive noise, from the motor while lightly accelerating. I'm planning a 5000km round trip to AZ from BC Canada next month and was a bit worried. I now feel at ease, thank you for this write-up and all the additional information posted by others. You guys are great!
I just finished getting new upper control arms etc (damn big tires) and had my plugs changed etc.
Plugs were a huge nightmare, 2 last ones by firewall broke and needed extraction. Not my doing (bought used) but guessing they had never been changed. I've never been a -take it to a mechanic kind of guy, but did this time due to lack of time. If my motor is making more noise by the time I get back from AZ I'll follow this amazing guide and do the overhaul.
You guys rock, thanks again. :thumbup:

Your welcome and me and s_varres are here to help when you tackle your project just holler! Absolutely love your name!!

Just joined f150forum.com

This thread is great! I have a question. This weekend I stated this timing job. I didn't see this thread until just now but I managed to tear everything down successfully. I replaced the phasers, chains, tensioners, guides, and crank sprocket. When replacing the chains I did not position the engine at TDC and figured it didn't matter since I was not remveing the camshafts. I did line up the timing marks and the positions were approximately: LH 1 o'clock, RH 12 o'clock, and crank mark at 6 o'clock. After putting the cover and balancer back on I rotated the crank manually to check for valve/piston interference. There did not seem to be any interference; however, I did notice the RH chain gets extremely tight in certain positions and seems a little loose in others. Common sense tells me that I may be a tooth off; but I checked the timing marks about a dozen times before buttoning up the cover.

Are the chains supposed to be a consistent tension throughout the entire revolution?

Welcome! Glad you found us.
I will let you know that TDC is not required, but at TDC the cams "stay put" better to line the marks up.

The reason the chain is not staying tight while spinning by hand is because the tensioners use oil pressure to "pump up"

Once you start the engine it will put everything tight. I like to crank with the fuel pump disconnected for a few seconds first to build pressure before actually starting.

Let us know how it is after you crank it up.

Good job on the DIY :)

-Steve

I hope not, we have the service records for it and it was pretty much kept up on. Of course they did use econolube and things for oil changes :/