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@Keshka
Very nice job setting up the Torque Pro cam timing monitor dashboard. I Like certain aspects better than the one I did.
Certainly can tell Bank1 is having difficulty positioning that cam where the PCM wants it. Bank 1 CAMERRR is all over the place compared to Bank2 VCT2ERR. (Disclaimer - I'm far from an expert. Not even a mechanic by trade or profession. Just 'forced' to learn a lot about VVT operation on my own truck before doing my timing job. And I learned a lot finding these PIDs and working out the Torque Pro gauges).
FIRST: I note that RCAM (A signal 'output' by the PCM indicating its 'desired' cam retard calculated in 'crankshaft degrees' is 43.4 to 43.8 in EVERY CASE. That is not proper (and may be an error in a Torque formula). The following are considerations.
o- The PCM will NOT request cam retard below 800 RPM or below 25% engine load.
o- When the PCM is unable to control cam timing within preset limits ("+" or "-" five camshaft degrees for five consecutive seconds), it gets pissed off and disables 'VCTENA' (signal for Conditions correct for variable timing). In the screens with VCTENA 'OFF', both VCT solenoids have 'zero' % duty cycle applied to them by the PCM. ////BUT "RCAM" is still around 43 Crankshaft Degrees /// That is incorrect. And should be figured out before going too far - possibly off track.
o- HOWEVER - when VCT Solenoid duty cycle is zero percent on both banks - the spool valve should be closed routing NO oil pressure into retard chambers of the phaser(s). 100% of all available oil flow & pressure should be routed into 'advance' chambers. WHY then is Bank1 CAMERRR registering full negative????
(More disclosure - I never definitively figured out whether negative Cam Err equates to over retarded -- 'or less retarded than desired'. But your diagnosis may help sort that out). After my timing job - when I quickly decelerate from cruising with lots of retard applied, both banks swing way negative (over retarded???) momentarily before returning to zero.
For the MOMENT - please compare and check the Torque Pro formula for RCAM.
your correct about a difference in the RCAM formula
I originally had this: Equation= ((Signed(A)*256)+B)/10
from the torque forums when you asked about creating a custom pid.
I changed it to the updated formula: (ABS(Signed(A)*256+B)/12.8)
didn't seem to make much difference (more testing to follow)
I found some crud (minor) on the passenger side VCT solenoid. Check each with 12v and they snap open and close so not dead all together.
The ECM seems to shutdown VCT at over 2500 rpm (no load) and I have to clear the fault codes to get it to come back on.
actually now, it just shuts down VCT after trying to reduce the VCT1ERR (increase since it's negative). Then VTC1DC just goes to zero and VTC2DC follows shortly
Well the hood is closed on the 04 F150 but I have a slight rough idle and it was throwing a P0010 code, I un hooked all the connectors and sprayed contact cleaner, I'll take it for another drive tomorrow. Idling my trims look weird. This is from a microscan device, my other one crapped out. Hot idle 614 rpm, STFT1 0, LTFT1 -2.3, STFT2 -3.1, LTFT2 4.7, 12 deg spark, IAT 122f, MAF .10 lb/min, 02S11.095v, 02s12 .065v, 02s21 .075, 02s22 .090, eng temp 195f, truck had about 10 miles on it since battery re connected. I'll post my horrendous experience shortly. But I'd like to Thank F150torqued for the help and Bent6 for the help and parts..
2004 F150 5.4 wanna be diesel 240K
Started on a Friday morning 9am and it went downhill from there..
Pulled her in the shop, put beer in the fridg, turned AC on and fired up hair nation..
Watched plenty of Fordtechmakeuloco videos and read 100’s of post, gather parts from, forum members, rockauto, amazon, local parts house, and freedom racing. So the PITA’s for me was power steering bracket WTH with the big azz bolt, right cam cover and rear bolts on both covers, dropping the pan. Other than that she has New plugs ( I ordered 515’s but they sent 546?? New kind I guess), 24 lash adjusters and followers, 1 new cam right side (Rockauto was out of the left and all the noise came from the right), ford phasers, steel tensioners, chains, gear, tone ring, oil pump, gaskets, chain guides, vct, and vct solenoid gasket. I broke the dang ps pump like a dumb-butt so a new ps pump. New oil, filter, coolant, nickel anti seize, dielectric grease for boots, 6 cans of carb or brake cleaner, ( 2 sets of contacts from melting them with cleaner that sprayed up) mich ultras, 2 gal purple power for cam covers, oil pan and front cover, 20oz of assembly lube, silicone, bud 55 select, ps fluid. Tools I bought phaser lock, long spark plug socket, crank positioning tool, and BC powder. Everything looked pretty good except the right side guides, broke in a few places and I don’t know how to check the lash adjusters. Previously she’s had lockouts and basic timing set by someone else unknown miles ago. I took the lockouts out and went back to factory tune so I may sell the lockout kit unless there’s any benefit to the lockout tune with factory phasers?? Oil pump looked factory so I went ahead and dropped the pan ( dangit ), cleaned it our ( guide pieces, 1-fly, a little sludge and allot of garnish. Primed new pump, re installed everything. Timing—since I had both cams out I soaked the lash adjusters and followers in oil over night, put everything in place, gently put cam in paying attention to the phaser lug to try and get it close to where it needs to be and started replacing cam caps from the center out, tightening about a ¼ turn at a time to ease everything down. Installed phaser, using lock tool torque to spec, repeat other side. When I replaced the chains I only had to move the cam maybe a tooth or so to get it aligned. Aligned one side, drank a beer mowed the yard a while, came back and re checked to make sure I did it correctly, repeat other side, with beer and mowing.. After both side were installed I took pictures, then looked at them to make sure alignment was good. Silicone the joints and put cover back on, left cam cover, new ps pump, pullies, right cam cover, I finally got p’d’ off and took some of the screws out and wrestled that dang thing on—OMG that took a BC and a few beers. I did not discharge the AC but that would have made it easier. I did find that a sheet metal driver bit and a flex ¼ extension did help on some of the satan cam cover bolts. Installed new plugs, put cops back in and hooked all the electrical and vacuum up, filled her up with oil, turned the crank bolt about 15ish times to help prime the system, put belt on, battery in. Then held gas petal to floor and spun her a few times to further prime, let it sit a few sec then started her up for about 5-8 second to make sure she’d start and run, re filled coolant, installed fan and shroud, looked for leaks and fired her up again for 3-4 mins, cut it off to let coolant settle and look for leaks. Cycled again for 10 mins, repeated a few more times slowly building engine temp, adding coolant and a little ps fluid as needed. Drove for about 10 miles and a p0010 came on and I’d like it to idle a little smoother ( poss vac leak) so I’m working on that. As far as parts the only issue was when I ordered my lash adjusters they only sent 4 vs 24 or I had to re order , then they sent some for a mits, or hyundi not even close to the right ones, so back on the phone and next day 20 of the correct ones FINALLY. Sorry so long but I just wanted to share my experience. Now to find me an android device for torque, load some of F150torques files and see what all is going on.
Hope cleaning connection contacts (especially that one on Bank 1 VCT Solenoid) will cure the P0010. With an open circuit problem on one VCT solenoid, the PCM won't even TRY to do variable valve timing.
All the other readings you listed look fine for idling after a 10 mile drive. You can't tell much from a 'snapshot' voltage reading on O2 sensors since upstream ones are switching all the time and the downstream ones CAN switch some too.
Fuel trims do not look bad at all. Nowhere close to a code on either side. Especially considering all the new parts and mechanical 'shock' to the system. If you didn't do a good 'relearn procedure', I might suggest doing a battery disconnect reset again and go through the whole process, then give it some miles of city / highway / freeway driving to settle down.
Thank you,
Is bank 1 the right? That VCT connector had some moisture in it and not seated 100%.
IS the correct relearn procedure to disconnect one battery cable and use a small jumper wire to jump to the other battery? I read somewhere where this discharges all the electrical stuff?
Also I'd like to get very familiar with the torque app what device is best and is there a place that has the "enhanced" files? I really like what Keshka did above.
I can wrench on "almost" anything but this ford put me thru it. On top of that I'm under the truck working and the wife and kids are stealing my welding helmets for the dang eclipse
That 'crud', even though minor - IS troubling. (ie: basically there is no way for crap to get inside the oil galleys / passageways downstream from the oil filter, short of uncleanliness in filter change or mechanical repairs. The oil system is all a closed system under pressure.) And the smallest junk can 'screw' a phaser - cause the vanes to bind or mess up the spring loaded/pressure released internal locking pin.
But. Something still concerns me about the 'RCAM' (PID #16CD) readings. Judging from the VCT1ERRT (total error count), some amount of run time is involved though I know cam error total can accumulate pretty quickly if a cam is 'stuck' retarded / or advanced. But judging from lowest and highest values on RCAM (as well as low/hi tick marks), it appears RCAM never changes. That is NOT normal. That reading is simply a numeric value presented to Torque Pro by the PCM - saying the PCM has calculated and requests that number of degrees 'Cam Retard'. In the 1st screenshot, the engine is at idle (670 RPM, 0 % Accel Pedal, 30% engine load). Although apparently shortly after startup, the PCM should NOT be requesting 44.0 CKS degrees retard. In fact its practically impossible to get my truck to request any RCAM in the driveway unless I put it in gear and torque it up pretty good - then back off. In all other operation conditions - RCAM is nice and linear ranging from 10-15 degrees up to around 60 degrees depending on driving conditions.
I cannot rationalize how your can be doing this. It's a digital OUTPUT from the PCM. Is it possible a 'Tune' could be involved?
That is a separate problem from Bank 1 not working correctly. Is it possible the prior owner installed NON-OEM phasers?
Just remove positive battery cable and jumper it (The 'CABLE connector') to the negative one for a sec. But do a search on the 'relearn procedure'. There are several steps in a sequence and I shouldn't trust my memory. I recall you start out with parking break on, Idle for one minute, turn A/C compressor on - idle for one minute, idle in gear for one minute, rev to 2500 rpm in neutral for one minute ---- etc etc and some drive cycle stuff --- etc etc. It's not a 'HAVE TO' thing, but it helps speed up PCM adjustments like fuel trim tables after new parts are installed.
I thought you were already a Torque Pro user? We'll help you out.
Is your welding helmet glass 'solar eclipse' rated? Don't let them stare at it too long through it. I don't think it is high enough rated. I built me a cardboard projection box with a hole in top and white paper on bottom to view it.
--------------------------- EDIT (found the 'Relearn Process' thread/post)
soooo, if my Rcam is all foobar lets start at the foundation. what raw values do you normally see for 2216cd and how does your formula translate that value into degrees?
I did fine one other formula on the web but the results were far from degrees.
I also have a soft noise coming from the driver side that is at the frequency of a sewing machine at idle. just a soft tick tick tick so am thinking may be another lifter/follower problem on that side.
I was hoping not to have to pull the timing cover and valve covers but it looks like that is next.
My other option in the face of $800+ parts bill is to just buy another engine from the wrecking yard with a lot less miles on it. Normally I can pick up an engine for less than the $800. Will check tomorrow.
Ahhh, you are going to make me 'disclose' more. How the Torque Pro formula for RCAM worked out to be what it is. ((( I will welcome more smarts on that. Meanwhile I'll tell you how I came up with it & why))) it is (ABS(Signed(A)*256+B)/12.8)
I promise Torque isn't lying. Multiply what you see by 12.8 and you'll have the raw value the PCM is sending for the two binary bytes of PID #16CD as a computer Word. ("A" is multiplied by *256 to shift it left eight bits - get it to the right power of 2 - , then the value of "B" is added to account for the value of the low order byte. Basically, that operation is converting binary (or hexidecimal) to decimal).
The 'ABS' and 'Signed' functions are there because I can tell it is a Signed word (High order bit is on sometimes) and the ABS is because there NO way Retard can go negative - because the phasers cannot 'Advance' the cams. Without the ABS, the gauge gets all screwed up when the reading is -2º or -5º (which is impossible). I suppose the software could be using that as some sort of a flag indication or something but I don't know what it would be for and just chose to throw it away with ABS.
The real question is HOW does the PCM generate that number for DESIRED retard - to ultimately be compared with CPS signals from the 'fingers' (or more specifically the 5th finger) on the Phaser??? There are 4 fingers on the pasers spaced at 90º - with a 5th finger 1/2 way between two of those - thus spaced at 45º for TDC timing (I think). But then the cam turns 1/2 the rate of the Crank.???
But there are 35 teeth on the Crank tone ring (with one missing for cyl 1 sync) - for a total of 36, or 1 for each 10º CKS. ??? Nothing seems to work out very well for the PCM to 'count'. Specifications say - maximum retard is 62 to 65 CKSº. Initially I used a divisor of 10 because it made sense with tone ring teeth and came out 'close' but retard would go up to 78 - 81 or 82 occasionally. 12 is better but makes no better sense. I can find no logic to 12.8 other than that gives a range between zero and about 68-70 Cksº.
But in your case - my concern is not seeing smooth linear RCAM values and occasional ZERO when I think it should be zero - like at idle. A bum or foobar formula might give 'wrong degrees' but should not cause no zero reading - when VCT Solenoid duty cycle is ZERO. (That's command for zero retard). What is going on?
08-20-2017, 03:37 PM
(ie: basically there is no way for crap to get inside the oil galleys / passageways downstream from the oil filter, short of uncleanliness in filter change or mechanical repairs. The oil system is all a closed system under pressure.) And the smallest junk can 'screw' a phaser - cause the vanes to bind or mess up the spring loaded/pressure released internal locking pin.