Btimbit

What is it in the Dorman phasers that fail?

I'm locking out my phasers, and when I took them off they came completely apart (Early 2004 design)

Much cheaper to get new blocks and Dorman phasers than to use the blocks I have and get the Ford phasers. Less than half price. If I'm locking them out anyway, are the Dorman's a reasonable option, or is there something else in them that fails?

Livernois Motorsports

It is not a Dorman issue, as it is not the phaser design itself. Phasers fail due to lack of hydraulic pressure at the phaser. That is a design flaw of the block itself. There are passages that get clogged with various media over time, and this robs pressure causing the phaser to be inoperable.

Martian

I beg to differ, professor. People who use Dorman phasers usually have to replace them in less than an oil change.

F150Torqued

So Livernois Motorsports proper solution to this explanation of the problem is to "jam" something into the Phaser, in its 'failed' position, and leave it forever.

Btimbit

But if they were locked, would they still fail right away?

Martian

Not sure. But saying Dorman failures are directly related to oil passages is simply not true. If it was, the folks who have experienced Dorman failure and replaced the Dorman with Motorcraft would then also have Motorcraft failure... and they don't.

Livernois Motorsports

YOu can beg to differ, and that is fine. However, from years of offering an actual solution to this issue we know that this is not the case. Your phasers will NOT fail with our kit installed.

I guess the CARB certification board and our team of engineers could all be wrong though....

F150Torqued

Respectfully - Livernois, I wish you would cease the fraudulent misrepresentations as are contained in the above quote under this legitimate thread titled "The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound" by the honorable s_vares.


To say a persons phasers will NOT fail with your lockout kit installed is nothing short of "Hillary LIES". Jam some foreign object into the phasers to prevent them from moving off full advance (or No Retard) position is nothing but a "jury riggin" job, and not an actual solution. I think I will start an appropriately titled thread for you under which you can take advantage of the unspecting with your junk fix.


I am NOT an engineer, but I have monitored my variable cam operation and I know that under a huge percentage of operating conditions, my engine is applying a good amount of cam retard. On a recent trip (on a Texas toll road with 85 mph speed limit) with cruise control set - I took the following screen capture. The ECU was routinely varying cam retard between 45 - 70 crankshaft degrees while cruising. It would vary cam retard BEFORE changing throttle position. Have your engineers explain why jamming the cams at full advance would be an improvement.










Frankly, I am not impressed with your "team of engineers" anyhow, if they recommend locking the Phasers at FULL advance, and they either don't know or cannot answer my very legitimate question posted here:
https://www.f150forum.com/f12/5-4l-p...dvance-300748/

07 EL

Hey guys, first time poster. So my wife's 07 expedition had a horrible chain slap on start up and then threw a p0016 code one. I ordered a new timing kit, oil pump, cam phasers and vct solenoids and spark plugs. I replaced it all and buttoned it and now it shakes like crazy. You can feel it slightly at idle, but it starts shaking really hard as soon as you give it gas. It didnt throw a code and I'm scared to even try to move it to see if it will throw one. As soon as you put it in gear the whole car shakes violently and feels likes it's close to stalling. Is it possible my timing jumped? Also when I was tightening the cam phaser on the passenger side, the cam rotated on me and I had to rotate it back so that chain marks would line up, is it possible that I damaged something when that happen? I'm lost guys, I need some help. The reluctor ring is facing the correct way and disconnecting the vct solenoids made no difference. Please help!

F150Torqued

@07 EL
Very sorry for this unfortunate set of events.
After such a major undertaking as you've just done - if one is not a seasoned mechanic, realizing so many parts have been MESSED with, it is natural to quickly jump to the conclusion that you've done something wrong.
First off - there has been so many things messed with it is hard to choose an initial direction. But assuming you put new chains and new tensioners on - it is unlikely there is enough slack in that system for it to "jump" timing. PLUS, if you are one tooth off (on a Phaser) you would have a code - (although my reading has suggested those can be vague as to cause but relates to cam positioning.)
It seems if you failed to connect something (ie: injector / cop or sensor) you would have an injector or cop circuit monitoring code, or even a rich/lean if it is ignition related. Thus it is troubling that you describe such rough operation without codes.


Assuming the crank dot was at (or near) 6:00 - and phasers were aligned with colored chain links and never moved while doing chain timing - (and you probably did not remove any roller/followers) the valve spring resistance will not move the cams far enough to hurt anything.... THAT is because that movement is the result of valve springs pushing a couple of valves SHUT, not OPEN. So if you only moved the cam "BACK" where it was - against the spring pressure - I do not think you hurt anything. That is assuming it wasn't rotated a full turn forward or something. I do not even think you would be likely to strain hard enough to bend a valve. Under the circumstances, it does seem to be a mechanical issue since there are no codes yet (even though it seems to me any such thing should give some code pretty quick). If you suspect valves or a dislodged roller/follower, you could remove the spark plugs and do a compression test. That could alert you as to possibly a valve issue or missing roller/follower.


If that proved clean, I would be for doing a complete "relearn process" and letting it idle for a while to see if it would settle down.


Good Luck