The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound
02-25-2016, 10:18 AM
#2641
LightningRod
@Fordjunkync is correct, I have ran Mobile 1 Full Synthetic sense new. I Can't point to a scientific reason or big name study that drove my decision. We are all sorta' burdened with old, long held oil viscosity theories - often from our own parents
and I'm certainly no exception. But here is what logic I applied. My truck has 212,000 miles and I've always felt higher mileage called for higher viscosity. I've had an aftermarket Oil Pressure gauge installed for a year or so. Prior to the Phaser Job, I had gone to 0W40 - because: Cold Idle pressure was FINE with 5W20 (like 65 lbs) but would saagg to around 16lbs at hot idle] With 0W40 Cold Idle pressure was around 63, but hot idle was much better - around 19-21.I did not know WHAT the effect of new Melling 10340 high volume pump OR new Phasers, Tensioners and lash adjusters would actually have on my pressures --- But basically I figured that; at that milage, the lower end probably would benefit from slightly higher weight. So I chose to start out with Mobile 1 full synt 5w30.
AS IT TURNS OUT --- I "may" try 5w20 on the first change because the oil pressure is really up there! With the 5w30, Cold idle is 90-95 lbs, and hot idle is 25-27. Even in gear with A/C on, it will be 24-25. I have noticed from prior experience that the oil pressure declines as the oil ages - and I have only driven about 100 miles since the Phaser job. So I plan to watch it until the first oil change. Also - it's noteworthy - Watching live data with the Torque Pro App - the Phasers / Cams react to PCM commanded retard positioning a little slower with thicker oils. I can see CAMERRR "bounce" negative 20-30 crankshaft degrees for a couple of seconds when the PCM calls for advance - and "Bounce" positive 20/30º for a couple of seconds when the PCM calls for retard. It just takes the Phasers a little time to get the cams positioned where they are supposed to be. /// OBDII Theory says >5º Error for > 5 Seconds = DTC P0021 or P0022 as appropriate /// I have observed this same thing with 5w20 - just shorter time. So all THAT will play into my decision whether to stay with 5w30 or go back to 5w20.
The following 2 users liked this post by F150Torqued:
Fordjunkync (02-25-2016),
klapp05gt (02-25-2016)
02-25-2016, 10:34 AM
#2642
Member
Sorry for the delay in response - I'm not as fast as the young sprouts and life got busy after spending a week doing a Phaser job.
@Fordjunkync is correct, I have ran Mobile 1 Full Synthetic sense new. I Can't point to a scientific reason or big name study that drove my decision. We are all sorta' burdened with old, long held oil viscosity theories - often from our own parents and I'm certainly no exception. But here is what logic I applied. My truck has 212,000 miles and I've always felt higher mileage called for higher viscosity. I've had an aftermarket Oil Pressure gauge installed for a year or so. Prior to the Phaser Job, I had gone to 0W40 - because: Cold Idle pressure was FINE with 5W20 (like 65 lbs) but would saagg to around 16lbs at hot idle] With 0W40 Cold Idle pressure was around 63, but hot idle was much better - around 19-21.
I did not know WHAT the effect of new Melling 10340 high volume pump OR new Phasers, Tensioners and lash adjusters would actually have on my pressures --- But basically I figured that; at that milage, the lower end probably would benefit from slightly higher weight. So I chose to start out with Mobile 1 full synt 5w30.
AS IT TURNS OUT --- I "may" try 5w20 on the first change because the oil pressure is really up there! With the 5w30, Cold idle is 90-95 lbs, and hot idle is 25-27. Even in gear with A/C on, it will be 24-25. I have noticed from prior experience that the oil pressure declines as the oil ages - and I have only driven about 100 miles since the Phaser job. So I plan to watch it until the first oil change. Also - it's noteworthy - Watching live data with the Torque Pro App - the Phasers / Cams react to PCM commanded retard positioning a little slower with thicker oils. I can see CAMERRR "bounce" negative 20-30 crankshaft degrees for a couple of seconds when the PCM calls for advance - and "Bounce" positive 20/30º for a couple of seconds when the PCM calls for retard. It just takes the Phasers a little time to get the cams positioned where they are supposed to be. /// OBDII Theory says >5º Error for > 5 Seconds = DTC P0021 or P0022 as appropriate /// I have observed this same thing with 5w20 - just shorter time. So all THAT will play into my decision whether to stay with 5w30 or go back to 5w20.
@Fordjunkync is correct, I have ran Mobile 1 Full Synthetic sense new. I Can't point to a scientific reason or big name study that drove my decision. We are all sorta' burdened with old, long held oil viscosity theories - often from our own parents
and I'm certainly no exception. But here is what logic I applied. My truck has 212,000 miles and I've always felt higher mileage called for higher viscosity. I've had an aftermarket Oil Pressure gauge installed for a year or so. Prior to the Phaser Job, I had gone to 0W40 - because: Cold Idle pressure was FINE with 5W20 (like 65 lbs) but would saagg to around 16lbs at hot idle] With 0W40 Cold Idle pressure was around 63, but hot idle was much better - around 19-21.I did not know WHAT the effect of new Melling 10340 high volume pump OR new Phasers, Tensioners and lash adjusters would actually have on my pressures --- But basically I figured that; at that milage, the lower end probably would benefit from slightly higher weight. So I chose to start out with Mobile 1 full synt 5w30.
AS IT TURNS OUT --- I "may" try 5w20 on the first change because the oil pressure is really up there! With the 5w30, Cold idle is 90-95 lbs, and hot idle is 25-27. Even in gear with A/C on, it will be 24-25. I have noticed from prior experience that the oil pressure declines as the oil ages - and I have only driven about 100 miles since the Phaser job. So I plan to watch it until the first oil change. Also - it's noteworthy - Watching live data with the Torque Pro App - the Phasers / Cams react to PCM commanded retard positioning a little slower with thicker oils. I can see CAMERRR "bounce" negative 20-30 crankshaft degrees for a couple of seconds when the PCM calls for advance - and "Bounce" positive 20/30º for a couple of seconds when the PCM calls for retard. It just takes the Phasers a little time to get the cams positioned where they are supposed to be. /// OBDII Theory says >5º Error for > 5 Seconds = DTC P0021 or P0022 as appropriate /// I have observed this same thing with 5w20 - just shorter time. So all THAT will play into my decision whether to stay with 5w30 or go back to 5w20.
02-25-2016, 10:52 AM
#2643
LightningRod
You are correct @klapp05gt. The screens in the VCT solenoids are so 'fine' its hard to imagine oil can even get through them. THEN, when I took the valve bodies off to clean them real good, found there is another screen just like that inside the valve body!
So I can understand why I witness slower Phaser operation with thicker oils. But with the original phasers & 0w40 - they would function OK. It was only that I could reliably cause a P0022 code pulling a load up a grade that caused me to decide to tear into it.
But with everything new - except the lower end - I just feel like the 5w30 might give it a little better protection. [That's that old school thinking. By the way I'm 70. So it's even much older school - I can remember babbit bearings!]
So I can understand why I witness slower Phaser operation with thicker oils. But with the original phasers & 0w40 - they would function OK. It was only that I could reliably cause a P0022 code pulling a load up a grade that caused me to decide to tear into it.
But with everything new - except the lower end - I just feel like the 5w30 might give it a little better protection. [That's that old school thinking. By the way I'm 70. So it's even much older school - I can remember babbit bearings!]
Last edited by F150Torqued; 02-25-2016 at 03:57 PM. Reason: corrected spelling of klapp05gt 's name
02-25-2016, 10:56 AM
#2644
LightningRod
I know the engine is quite now at idle before it sounded like a deisel.
The only prob is the engine light is on and the code says cam phaser A ?
Because it had jumped time. The engine light didn't come on until the engine was hot after being driven. That is I think it is the oil pressure because the tensioners a should be under pressure?
The only prob is the engine light is on and the code says cam phaser A ?
Because it had jumped time. The engine light didn't come on until the engine was hot after being driven. That is I think it is the oil pressure because the tensioners a should be under pressure?
What specific timing code are you getting? There are separate codes for 'over retard' and 'over advance'. That might help sort things out.
Also, those two codes do not set the DTC immediately. They are grey codes first (invisible w/o a scanner), then if the condition persists or repeats too many times in the drive cycle, they set a DTC. So don't condemn the oil pressure too soon.
02-25-2016, 11:06 AM
#2645
Member
[QUOTE=F150Torqued;4590854]If the cam timing was set correctly on installation of new chains / guides, I find it MOST unlikely for it to have jumped time. Mine HAD 212k miles, both guides completely smashed, and tensioner arms 'cracked' for several thousand miles and didn't jump time. When OPENED up, the chains could be flopped around like crazy - but by counting chain links both ways on both sides was able to determine it was STILL in time. With the new stuff in there - there would just be NO WAY.
What specific timing code are you getting? There are separate codes for 'over retard' and 'over advance'. That might help sort things out.
Also, those two codes do not set the DTC immediately. They are grey codes first (invisible w/o a scanner), then if the condition persists or repeats too many times in the drive cycle, they set a DTC. So don't condemn the oil pressure too soon.
Dont know if this will help or not, but mine ran pretty crappy for a while after doing all the work on mine. Thought it was a timing issue myself. I dont remember where I found it but there is a battery re-learn fix? on here somewhere, that seemed to help mine. It took a few miles after the re learn process, but it did fix it.
What specific timing code are you getting? There are separate codes for 'over retard' and 'over advance'. That might help sort things out.
Also, those two codes do not set the DTC immediately. They are grey codes first (invisible w/o a scanner), then if the condition persists or repeats too many times in the drive cycle, they set a DTC. So don't condemn the oil pressure too soon.
Dont know if this will help or not, but mine ran pretty crappy for a while after doing all the work on mine. Thought it was a timing issue myself. I dont remember where I found it but there is a battery re-learn fix? on here somewhere, that seemed to help mine. It took a few miles after the re learn process, but it did fix it.
The following users liked this post:
dsa (03-22-2016)
03-23-2016, 12:17 PM
#2647
Local 134 guy
Thanks
03-23-2016, 12:18 PM
#2648
03-23-2016, 01:15 PM
#2649
Member
03-23-2016, 01:20 PM
#2650
Nope. I have some sound but that's because I now have headers and they're leaking.
