The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound
05-15-2014, 01:56 PM
#1391
Senior Member
I may have missed the conclusion to a brief mention of oil. I see the fill cap on my 08 showing 5W/20W oil is called for. I've been told to run 10W/50W and that should quite the phasers until I can get the truck in for repairs.
But then a couple post back it's mentioned that the tensioner seals are thin and many are blown. So my thought is if you don't have blown tensioner seals the increased pressure from 10W/50W oil could cause them to fail.
Anyone want to comment on this theory?
Should there be a better seal?
What do the race car and off road guys run?
But then a couple post back it's mentioned that the tensioner seals are thin and many are blown. So my thought is if you don't have blown tensioner seals the increased pressure from 10W/50W oil could cause them to fail.
Anyone want to comment on this theory?
Should there be a better seal?
What do the race car and off road guys run?
I don't think running any 10w oil is a good idea. Some of the oil passages are really small, and the thicker oil will not flow through them as well as the 5w. I've heard of 5w30 softening the noise also, and would be a safer bet. On the other hand, I could see where the thicker oil would decrease the loss of oil pressure through the tensioner seals, and allow oil to get back to parts of the head. All in all, it's probably a roll of the dice. I have a back up truck ('94 ranger with 313k miles and still kicking strong), so it's not worth taking the chance. I want my nice truck to stay nice.
I would not recommend going beyond the 5W-30 (or 10W-30 if you live in a climate that rarely or never has freezing temperatures). To go to a 10W-40, 15W-40 or 15W-50 is way too thick of an oil for the 5.4 3V. It could mask some phaser noise, if you have blown tensioner seals, but still not recommended.
BTW - I did put 15W-40 in my truck as a test before tackling the phaser / timing components job. I only ran the truck to full-op-temp. My pressures were definitely 5-10psi higher, but my phaser noise never went away. I put 5W-30 back into it and ordered the parts the same day.
05-16-2014, 12:11 AM
#1393
That's the one I used. I also picked up some valve covers from O'reilly, and one VCT seal from the dealer for the passenger side. I priced out getting the parts from other places seperately, but after shipping charges it wasn't that much cheaper with a longer wait to get them all in. I think I would have saved $5 using a few non - motorcraft parts and had to wait an extra week. With the kit, I ordered it on a Thursday and it arrived Monday, with free shipping, and all Motorcraft parts.
I was hoping to get it quick like that too but was in the process of ordering the kit and it says the estimated delivery is between June 30-July 7.....?
05-16-2014, 09:07 AM
#1394
Senior Member
For me, the estimated delivery was about a month. Then I received an email later that day saying it had shipped and the estimated delivery was a week and a half. I checked the tracking number on the UPS website, and they said a few days. I assumed that Ebay may just be covering their bases by over estimating.
05-27-2014, 10:28 PM
#1395
I just ordered my parts from Freedom Racing Tool and Die, LLC.
They have put together a complete timing chain replacement kit as well as offering other parts to consider replacing.
5.4L 3V Complete Timing Chain Replacement Kit
All parts are Genuine Ford OEM except the two chains, two tensioner arms, and two chain guides, which are Cloyes brand. The Genuine Ford OEM parts are the tensioners and clips, front seal, trigger wheel, and crankshaft sprocket for $180. And they offer to add a OEM front cover gasket set for $34.
They also have all the other parts needed to do a complete job.
When i do mine im going to change the following:
Complete Timing Chain Replacement Kit $180
Camshaft Phasers - both $260
VCT Control Solenoids with seals - both $132
Hydraulic Lash Adjusters - 24 $166
Crankshaft Pulley Harmonic Balancer Bolt w/ washer - $14
Spark Plugs - 8 $109
Valve Cover gaskets - both $55
Oil and Filter - $30
Im also considering the following because i dont want to have to go back and replace something once its back together:
Oil Pump - $102 depending on the condition of the chain guides and tensioner arms.
Rocker Arms - $148 depending on condition
water pump - $40
If I replace these parts it will cost approximately $1300.
Definitely worth the extra money to not have to take it a part again.
They have put together a complete timing chain replacement kit as well as offering other parts to consider replacing.
5.4L 3V Complete Timing Chain Replacement Kit
All parts are Genuine Ford OEM except the two chains, two tensioner arms, and two chain guides, which are Cloyes brand. The Genuine Ford OEM parts are the tensioners and clips, front seal, trigger wheel, and crankshaft sprocket for $180. And they offer to add a OEM front cover gasket set for $34.
They also have all the other parts needed to do a complete job.
When i do mine im going to change the following:
Complete Timing Chain Replacement Kit $180
Camshaft Phasers - both $260
VCT Control Solenoids with seals - both $132
Hydraulic Lash Adjusters - 24 $166
Crankshaft Pulley Harmonic Balancer Bolt w/ washer - $14
Spark Plugs - 8 $109
Valve Cover gaskets - both $55
Oil and Filter - $30
Im also considering the following because i dont want to have to go back and replace something once its back together:
Oil Pump - $102 depending on the condition of the chain guides and tensioner arms.
Rocker Arms - $148 depending on condition
water pump - $40
If I replace these parts it will cost approximately $1300.
Definitely worth the extra money to not have to take it a part again.
Last edited by cvanhorn; 05-27-2014 at 10:33 PM.
05-28-2014, 02:36 AM
#1396
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I just finished installing new chains, tensioners, phasers and guides. Here are my lessons learned that may be of use to someone else.
1.) The chain links used for timing reference are not easy to identify in a dark engine bay. A drop of nail polish on each one makes them much easier to identify.
2.) If in doubt about the alignment; the chains have 61 links in them. If you use the link that is at the crank gear timing mark at the "0" link, you can count links to the cam sprockets. The cam sprocket timing marks will fall between the 30th and 31st links (counted clockwise or counterclockwise) if the timing is properly set. This technique works well for verify timing after spinning the motor a few times checking for resistance as the reference links will not line up with the timing marks again. This is important if you are **** retentive like me and need to verify the alignment 30-40 times.
3.) Pull the power steering pump pulley to get easier access the front, bottom power steering pump bolt. You should not need to remove any power steering lines.
4.) After un-bolting the passenger side valve cover, I was able to pull it up high enough to prop it up on the transmission dipstick tube. This gave me the needed access without having to fight to completely remove the cover.
5.) If you get confused, the driver side (L bank) tensioner arm is the one that has the small (1/4") bump or "nipple" by the pivot hole.
1.) The chain links used for timing reference are not easy to identify in a dark engine bay. A drop of nail polish on each one makes them much easier to identify.
2.) If in doubt about the alignment; the chains have 61 links in them. If you use the link that is at the crank gear timing mark at the "0" link, you can count links to the cam sprockets. The cam sprocket timing marks will fall between the 30th and 31st links (counted clockwise or counterclockwise) if the timing is properly set. This technique works well for verify timing after spinning the motor a few times checking for resistance as the reference links will not line up with the timing marks again. This is important if you are **** retentive like me and need to verify the alignment 30-40 times.
3.) Pull the power steering pump pulley to get easier access the front, bottom power steering pump bolt. You should not need to remove any power steering lines.
4.) After un-bolting the passenger side valve cover, I was able to pull it up high enough to prop it up on the transmission dipstick tube. This gave me the needed access without having to fight to completely remove the cover.
5.) If you get confused, the driver side (L bank) tensioner arm is the one that has the small (1/4") bump or "nipple" by the pivot hole.
05-28-2014, 09:22 AM
#1397
I just finished installing new chains, tensioners, phasers and guides. Here are my lessons learned that may be of use to someone else.
1.) The chain links used for timing reference are not easy to identify in a dark engine bay. A drop of nail polish on each one makes them much easier to identify.
2.) If in doubt about the alignment; the chains have 61 links in them. If you use the link that is at the crank gear timing mark at the "0" link, you can count links to the cam sprockets. The cam sprocket timing marks will fall between the 30th and 31st links (counted clockwise or counterclockwise) if the timing is properly set. This technique works well for verify timing after spinning the motor a few times checking for resistance as the reference links will not line up with the timing marks again. This is important if you are **** retentive like me and need to verify the alignment 30-40 times.
3.) Pull the power steering pump pulley to get easier access the front, bottom power steering pump bolt. You should not need to remove any power steering lines.
4.) After un-bolting the passenger side valve cover, I was able to pull it up high enough to prop it up on the transmission dipstick tube. This gave me the needed access without having to fight to completely remove the cover.
5.) If you get confused, the driver side (L bank) tensioner arm is the one that has the small (1/4") bump or "nipple" by the pivot hole.
1.) The chain links used for timing reference are not easy to identify in a dark engine bay. A drop of nail polish on each one makes them much easier to identify.
2.) If in doubt about the alignment; the chains have 61 links in them. If you use the link that is at the crank gear timing mark at the "0" link, you can count links to the cam sprockets. The cam sprocket timing marks will fall between the 30th and 31st links (counted clockwise or counterclockwise) if the timing is properly set. This technique works well for verify timing after spinning the motor a few times checking for resistance as the reference links will not line up with the timing marks again. This is important if you are **** retentive like me and need to verify the alignment 30-40 times.
3.) Pull the power steering pump pulley to get easier access the front, bottom power steering pump bolt. You should not need to remove any power steering lines.
4.) After un-bolting the passenger side valve cover, I was able to pull it up high enough to prop it up on the transmission dipstick tube. This gave me the needed access without having to fight to completely remove the cover.
5.) If you get confused, the driver side (L bank) tensioner arm is the one that has the small (1/4") bump or "nipple" by the pivot hole.
Thanks for the tips. Did your noise go away? How did your old parts look?
05-28-2014, 09:44 AM
#1398
My truck is in the shop now. As the work was progressing my mechanic friend discovered a cam that was starting to fail as well. A couple exhaust lobes were starting to groove and the rockers were starting to fail. He told me the other cam looked like it had been replaced as the casting looked different than the one he was replacing and more like the one he was installing. One is more common to fail than the other. It should be done today or tomorrow. This is going to be expensive but less than the stealer quoted to replace the engine.
Last edited by Area51Werks; 05-28-2014 at 09:46 AM.
05-28-2014, 11:48 PM
#1399
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The noise did go away. It's quiet as a mouse now. Both tensioners had evidence of blown seals on the backsides. Both chain guides were in multiple pieces. There was some chain stretch. I found no indicators of any problems with the phasers. The passenger side chain was so loose that the loop in the chain was only separated by about 3/16".
