After Phaser Lockout?
02-02-2017, 03:24 PM
#1
Moderator
Thread Starter
After Phaser Lockout?
MY friends dad has an 05 F150 Lariat and he is wanting to put phaser lockouts in. He asked me a question to which I don't know the answer. What are (if any) the ill effects of a lockout or after a lockout is installed? I told him to just fix it right....
02-03-2017, 03:02 AM
#2
LightningRod
Question posed has two distinct components to it, philosophical and mechanical. Neither being particularly easy to answer and often times with many users, neither one necessarily shapes the other.
Mechanically - I know from monitoring, logging, and graphing PIDs relating to the VVT system and other parameters effected by it: 1). Variable valve timing has a surprising degree of retard applied under a large majority of 'normal' driving conditions - ie city/urban/cursing. 2). Monitoring CHT (directly from the CHT Volts) reveals any amount of valve retard very quickly cools cylinder head temperature - reducing load on cooling system, and adds life to spark plugs. 3). Item 2 also reduces Nox emissions (something you can't see/hear/smell - but IS an air pollutant. 4). Under cruise control, the PCM adjusts valve retard BEFORE the throttle is adjusted to maintain speed - tells me it is very effective at affecting power. 5). FULL advance (the position lockouts force 100% of the time) is ONLY employed by the variable valve timing system at a) Idle, b) > ~80% engine load, very high RPMs with load > ~50%, which are infrequently demanded by most drivers. 6). Physics of the engine operation dictates fuel economy would be less (?~ mpg) because full advance has the mechanical effect of raising compression by aspirating a greater volume of air compared any degree of retarded operation.
Philosophically - I believe the ONLY symptom lockouts 'cures' is noise slap of phaser vanes against the Zero Degree locking pin - or the end of advance/retard chambers. THAT symptom is caused by degradation of oil pressure within the Phaser chambers (normally at idle only) - and lockouts do NOTHING to solve or improve oil flow or pressure. IF the CAUSE of oil pressure degradation (cam bearings, main bearings, thrust bearings, lifters, oil pressure restrictor in the heads, or phasers / tensioners or OIL PUMP itself) is NOT addressed - additional failures are forthcoming because of that problem. More importantly - if the ROOT cause (oil pressure degradation) IS fixed, there is NO NEED for lockouts in the first place.
That's my two cents worth on it.
I believe you advised your friend's dad correctly.
02-03-2017, 10:21 AM
#3
Moderator
Thread Starter
Question posed has two distinct components to it, philosophical and mechanical. Neither being particularly easy to answer and often times with many users, neither one necessarily shapes the other.
Mechanically - I know from monitoring, logging, and graphing PIDs relating to the VVT system and other parameters effected by it: 1). Variable valve timing has a surprising degree of retard applied under a large majority of 'normal' driving conditions - ie city/urban/cursing. 2). Monitoring CHT (directly from the CHT Volts) reveals any amount of valve retard very quickly cools cylinder head temperature - reducing load on cooling system, and adds life to spark plugs. 3). Item 2 also reduces Nox emissions (something you can't see/hear/smell - but IS an air pollutant. 4). Under cruise control, the PCM adjusts valve retard BEFORE the throttle is adjusted to maintain speed - tells me it is very effective at affecting power. 5). FULL advance (the position lockouts force 100% of the time) is ONLY employed by the variable valve timing system at a) Idle, b) > ~80% engine load, very high RPMs with load > ~50%, which are infrequently demanded by most drivers. 6). Physics of the engine operation dictates fuel economy would be less (?~ mpg) because full advance has the mechanical effect of raising compression by aspirating a greater volume of air compared any degree of retarded operation.
Philosophically - I believe the ONLY symptom lockouts 'cures' is noise slap of phaser vanes against the Zero Degree locking pin - or the end of advance/retard chambers. THAT symptom is caused by degradation of oil pressure within the Phaser chambers (normally at idle only) - and lockouts do NOTHING to solve or improve oil flow or pressure. IF the CAUSE of oil pressure degradation (cam bearings, main bearings, thrust bearings, lifters, oil pressure restrictor in the heads, or phasers / tensioners or OIL PUMP itself) is NOT addressed - additional failures are forthcoming because of that problem. More importantly - if the ROOT cause (oil pressure degradation) IS fixed, there is NO NEED for lockouts in the first place.
That's my two cents worth on it.I believe you advised your friend's dad correctly.
Mechanically - I know from monitoring, logging, and graphing PIDs relating to the VVT system and other parameters effected by it: 1). Variable valve timing has a surprising degree of retard applied under a large majority of 'normal' driving conditions - ie city/urban/cursing. 2). Monitoring CHT (directly from the CHT Volts) reveals any amount of valve retard very quickly cools cylinder head temperature - reducing load on cooling system, and adds life to spark plugs. 3). Item 2 also reduces Nox emissions (something you can't see/hear/smell - but IS an air pollutant. 4). Under cruise control, the PCM adjusts valve retard BEFORE the throttle is adjusted to maintain speed - tells me it is very effective at affecting power. 5). FULL advance (the position lockouts force 100% of the time) is ONLY employed by the variable valve timing system at a) Idle, b) > ~80% engine load, very high RPMs with load > ~50%, which are infrequently demanded by most drivers. 6). Physics of the engine operation dictates fuel economy would be less (?~ mpg) because full advance has the mechanical effect of raising compression by aspirating a greater volume of air compared any degree of retarded operation.
Philosophically - I believe the ONLY symptom lockouts 'cures' is noise slap of phaser vanes against the Zero Degree locking pin - or the end of advance/retard chambers. THAT symptom is caused by degradation of oil pressure within the Phaser chambers (normally at idle only) - and lockouts do NOTHING to solve or improve oil flow or pressure. IF the CAUSE of oil pressure degradation (cam bearings, main bearings, thrust bearings, lifters, oil pressure restrictor in the heads, or phasers / tensioners or OIL PUMP itself) is NOT addressed - additional failures are forthcoming because of that problem. More importantly - if the ROOT cause (oil pressure degradation) IS fixed, there is NO NEED for lockouts in the first place.
That's my two cents worth on it.I believe you advised your friend's dad correctly.
02-03-2017, 12:56 PM
#4
Moderator
Thread Starter
Well he wasn't hearing any of that lol. So I give up on him. Getting a quote from our family mechanic to have the whole timing done on my truck.
02-03-2017, 04:20 PM
#5
LightningRod
He's probably been reading 'Fake News' put out by one certain manufacturer of Lockouts purporting to cure to all those awful timing problems the Ford Tritons have. (ie: cures Phaser noise - resulting from low oil pressure, improves oil flow, improves serviceability - etc. etc. etc.)
02-03-2017, 04:48 PM
#6
Moderator
Thread Starter
Lol well like I said I told him what you said and now I'm moving on to my own phaser noise. I'll be having mine done the right way.