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Irrelevant as this engine has fixed cam gears.
I had a 2000 5.4 that I bought with 30,000 miles & sold it with over 200,000 miles. I used 20w50 in it but like I noted above these model engines have fixed cam gears & doesn't pertain to this thread.
I didnt start having phasor/timing system issues till 90,000 miles.
I bought the truck new & had always used motorcraft 5w20 & filter. (So motorcraft 5w20 & filter doesn't prove that they will prevent phasor/timing system issues)
Also note the 2009 models came with the updated phasors & VCT solenoids. I have a 2009
Again Irrelevant as these engines have fixed cam gears.
I had never run 5w30 in my 2009 5.4 until after I swapped all the timing system parts as I now know that motorcraft 5w20 & filter will not prevent phasor/timing system issues.
I so far have driven 23,xxx miles using 5w30 Synthetic oil after I swapped all the timing system parts
I also dont think 5w30 will prevent having phasor/timing system issues either. I think the timing system was just poorly engineered.
.
My point is I use the recommended weight of oil from Ford. When Ford has required/suggested 5W20, thats what I have used. As a result, I have never had internal engine failure or engine breakdown due to 5W20. But your last sentence is the true issue, the timing system is poorly designed. FWIW, I tried 5W30 in my 07 Expedition and it just seemed like the engine was louder, so after 3K that came out and I went back to 5W20.
Not true. Ford doesn't give new part numbers for no reason for replacement parts, they made rolling changes over the years to many problem parts on 3V motors. There are no exact dates plus ford didn't exactly advertise it either as doing so would be admitting fault in the design to some degree. As far as changes off the top of my head the VCT solenoid has changed several times with orifice and screen size changes, the pump has been updated to carry more pressure at hot idle to solve some of the noise issues of the top end due to low oil pressure, the lash adjusters received a minor change so they don't bleed down as much and become loud the first minute or two at cold start up, the plastic tensioners received a different seal material to reduce blow out and cut down on bleed down as well which led to slack in the guides and chain noise. These were all rolling changes as different years started exposing different problems.
Well if they made changes why are there still threads in the 12th gen section about timing system failures? Yeah, maybe Ford made some changes, but there are still plenty of failures in the 12th gens 5.4's.
Oh I didn't say they entirely fixed the issues but they tried. Quietly. There were still plenty of problems, most centered around like I said Ford asking too much of its oiling system and as others have mentioned inadequate design of the 3V timing system. Oil is only part of the problem but compounded it when Ford chased better mpg numbers instead of doing right by its customers. Honestly the best general production engines ford has produced are probably the 2v modulars. We had plenty of vehicles in our fleet and department with 300,000 plus miles. Mostly trouble free with the exception of alternators and leaking intake manifolds.
I agree. My 01 Superduty with the 5.4 2v had 200k trouble free miles. They just needed to add a few more threads to the heads for those spark plug spitting issues, but I never had that problem. Only thing I had fail on that truck was the starter, the rest was just normal maintenance like brakes, shocks, filters etc.
My point is I use the recommended weight of oil from Ford. When Ford has required/suggested 5W20, thats what I have used. As a result, I have never had internal engine failure or engine breakdown due to 5W20.
Note mileage in post below (IN BOLD)
Originally Posted by Summers22
my 07 F150 with the 5.4 (have put 40K on it) and my 07 Expedition 5.4 (have put 45K on it). they both used Motorcraft 5W20.
I didnt start having phasor/timing system issues till 90,000 miles.
I bought the truck new & had always used motorcraft 5w20 & filter.
Originally Posted by Summers22
Well if they made changes why are there still threads in the 12th gen section about timing system failures? Yeah, maybe Ford made some changes, but there are still plenty of failures in the 12th gens 5.4's.
So you do agree that using motorcraft 5w20 & filter wont prevent them from having issues either, Gotcha.
My F150 has 155K and My 07 Expedition has just turned 150K.........those miles in bolb that you used are miles I have actually owned them for, not their total miles. All I use is 5W20 Motorcraft and FL-820s filters. No oil will stop guides from breaking and clogging the oil pump screen and by doing so cause starvation to the rest of the vct system. For these engines its not a matter of if, its when.
My F150 has 155K and My 07 Expedition has just turned 150K.........those miles in bolb that you used are miles I have actually owned them for, not their total miles.
That makes more sense mileage wise for the age of those models. I only used the mileage that was previously posted.
Originally Posted by Summers22
All I use is 5W20 Motorcraft and FL-820s filters. I tried 5W30 for 2k miles in my 07 Expedition (to hop on the 5W30 cures all bandwagon) and it idled rougher and louder than with 5W20. I promptly switched back to 5W20 and it quitted right down
Well at least you tested it for 2,000miles, If it had caused that to my engine then I would switched back also.
I see that we see it from 2 different perspectives & in my opinion we are both correct.
You have had good service from 5w20 but didnt like the running issues you had with just changing the oil to 5w30.
(From a basic google search for Kansas weather looks to be a cooler environment than my area & may be the influencing characteristic on your rough idle & noise on oil flowing through the VCT screens & phasors)
I have had good service with 5w20 until I had phasor/timing system issues @ 90,000 miles.
Im (like most do) would rehash what ford recommended as a friend-service tech at a ford dealership told me that I would have phasor issues if I didnt strictly use motorcraft 5w20 & filter).
After I had phasor/timing system issues is when I realized that motorcraft 5w20 & filter is not the holy grail to prevent those issues.
I chose 5w30 for more hot weather conditions (I tow also) by the next oil level "30"
(note oil psi testing is done at operating temperature) but engine start up "5w" is the same (in general speaking).
Originally Posted by Summers22
No oil will stop guides from breaking and clogging the oil pump screen and by doing so cause starvation to the rest of the vct system. For these engines its not a matter of if, its when.
I agree
OTHER
Originally Posted by Fordjunkync
In general
5w20 & 5w30. In this case the 5w (‘W’ stands for Winter) is a representation of the motor oil’s viscosity when the oil is cold and is determined from tests conducted at temperatures below zero degrees Fahrenheit.
The 20 & 30 rating indicates the viscosity of the oil when tested (only at an engine operating temperature of 212 degrees Fahrenheit).
Now with engine wear the clearances in a engine increase in which bleeds off oil & by increasing the oil grade thickness will help reduce the leakage.
But the main issue everyone is concerned with between 5w20 vs 5w30 is HOW the 20 vs 30 flows through the VCT solenoids, phasers & tensioners.
As noted above,
the 20 & 30 rating indicates the viscosity of the oil when tested (only at an engine operating temperature of 212 degrees Fahrenheit).
But then theres the rate of time for (temperature increase of cold oil to reach operation temperature) that is a variable. (Note: of HOW the oil flows through the VCT solenoids, phasers & tensioners)
The variable can be influenced by things like
the outside temperature,
how long you let the engine idle till it reaches operation temperature,
how soon you start to drive the cold engine,
the thickness of oil,
the rpms of the engine,
the load that is placed on a engine,
OTHER
I thought this was interesting info also, I screen shot this video of the ford service tech guy just changing the stock high volume oil pump to a high volume & psi pump.
Both at operating temps in park. Before
AFTER
.
Last edited by Fordjunkync; 01-15-2017 at 01:50 AM.
Now that is impressive. In my mind, it all comes down to the fact that if anything fails, it all needs replaced (phasers, vct solenoids, guides, chains, oil pump (melling 360 is my choice), lash adjusters, followers and steel tensioners). These guys that open up their motors and slap in some lock-outs make me cringe.......
01-14-2017, 10:33 AM
