Scott701

Want to do some mods to my stock engine.
Looking into ported heads (http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=11406)

These heads do not include cams, followers, or hydraulic lash adjusters and I'm not sure why. Do I need upgraded stuff or will the equipment off my current 5.4 be fine?

jp4lsu

I think it would be fine to use stock cams, but I would say you will not see much difference in performance.

The combustion chamber is now 53cc versus OEM 51cc, which means a decrease in compression.

I wouldn't by these heads unless you plan on using forced induction (supercharger). If you aren't supercharging it, then I would only get the heads if you plan on using a bigger cam, headers, high flow exhaust, CAI, and a tune.

With the larger combustion chamber you will want to probably supercharge it and that is probably the intent here. Not sure how much that will drop compression. I don't think it would be very much.

In the end, $1000 is a lot of money for very minimal difference IMO. I could think of spending $1000 and get more performance out of the motor in other areas.

Now if you plan on doing a ton of work where the ported heads could be beneficial then go for it.

Back in the push rod days with the small block 350 chevy, 302 Fords, and big block Chevy and Fords, porting and polishing heads coupled with larger intake/exhaust valves was a hot upgrade. But there was a lot of flow to be gained in those cylinder heads, where there was 1 intake and 1 exhaust valve as compared to what can be gained in today's cylinder heads.

But then these upgrades would be proved unfruitful if you didn't get a high flow intake and bump up the carb sizes that could get more air and fuel to the higher flowing heads.

Cylinder heads these days flow a lot already with 3V and 4V cylinder heads. Like the old V8 small block days, the porting of heads will need more air and fuel getting to the better flowing heads in order to realize the potential of the newly ported heads. In today's motors that means forced induction, CAI, higher pressure fuel systems, engine tunes, high flow exhaust, etc.

Unless you plan on doing all that, I wouldn't spend my money on these heads. I would spend it on high flow exhaust, CAI, tuning, higher fuel pressures.

Just my 2 cents from the knowledge I gained working in an engine machine shop.

Scott701

Thanks bud. I have considered forced induction... hell, I still am. I know that a nice long run on the dyno with a competent tech. helping me tune would make my stock truck a whole lot stronger, but I'm looking for what my gut tells me is a "true improvement". A "true" improvement to me means an engine made of stronger parts.

What makes a "performance" cam better than a stock cam? Heaviness? I must be missing something.. Are they not both just pieces of metal with lobes cut out of them?? More air passing into, and out of, the cylinder makes good sense as an upgrade. Tuning as well. A "heavier" cam doesn't. They make phaser "upgrades" for these heavier cams but I still don't get it.

Superchargers and turbochargers are real nice, but I have no desire to fab pipes, lower my truck, spend $6200, rip my truck apart nd let it lie in a shop for a month, or pretend IM driving a racecar.

Im looking for maybe 60-80 more hp at the rear wheel.

FANGS99

The stock heads will flow more air with a FI setup than the stock shortblock will hold.

jp4lsu

Fang has a good point. Something I might not have focused on enough. The multi valve heads on today's cars flow so much air, that until you start forced induction, large injectors, and high flow exhaust, ported heads won't gain you very much. The only way ported heads will give you some gain is when they become the choke point. You have to do a lot of work for modern cylinder heads to become the choke points.

Back in the push rod v-8 days this wasn't so true. You put big carbs, high flow intakes, and big cams in the motors, the heads became the choke point quickly. They only had 1 intake and 1 exhaust valve and they weren't very big, so they became the choke point easily.

So they would port heads and put larger diameter valves in the heads to realize the full potential of the bigger carbs, intake, and cams. Also you have to have the ports in the heads matched up with the intake.

I'm not sure how the ported heads in question match up with the stock intake ports. Then you would want a gasket that would be made for the newly port heads as well. You don't want the stock gasket poking out in the airflow of the larger ports.

If the intake is not match ported the ported heads will really be useless. Now I'm not familiar with the size of the ports on the intake and how they match up on a stock motor. They maybe larger or smaller.

LARGER:
If the intake ports are larger than the ports on the head, then there would be a little benefit to porting the heads. But I think the gains would be pretty minimal unless you do some other upgrades that will get more air and fuel into the intake,heads, and combustion chamber. Like I and Fang mentioned.....these heads flow a lot of air already. Also the intake ports could be the size they are because Ford wanted a certain air speed in the ports. If you slow that down (which will happen when increasing volume in the port), it will affect either low end torque or high end horsepower.

SMALLER:
If the intake runners are smaller or the same size as the intake ports, then porting will also not help much. The choke point is then at the intake. Flowing air through a smaller runner only to have the intake port open up to a larger volume will not do anything. It may actually hurt you. The air coming down the intake is at a certain volumetric flow and particular airspeed. Whent that flow then comes to a larger volume chamber the speed of the air will slow down. Plus it might cause some turblence at that transition. This could have a negative affect on performance.

It's like flowing water in a pipe. A big pipe the water goes pretty slow but if you start necking down the diameter of the pipe the speed of the water increases because the volumetric flow must stay the same. The same is true in reverse. The fast flowing water then becomes slower in speed as the diameter gets bigger.

CAMS:
I mentioned in my first reply that running bigger cams would help realize some gains in the ported head. When I say bigger, I mean cams that have more lift and duration than the stock ones. This means the cam will open the valves more which is done by the lift of the cam and duration will keep the valves open longer. This all allows more air and fuel to get into the combustion chamber.

Typically porting cylinder heads are coupled with the ability to get more fuel and air into the chamber. This is done with possibily forced induction to get more air or either a high performance intake. More fuel means new high performance injectors and high performance fuel pump to keep it pressurized for more fuel flow. Then larger cams keeps the valves open more and longer to get the newly increased air and fuel flow into the chamber. It is at this point where porting the heads will bring you some noticable gain.

If you aren't doing any of that, a ported head will net you little. To see performance gains, there are plenty of other things to do that would be more cost effective and much more effective on the performance side as well.

Sorry for the thesis, but it is info that I've learned from working in the engine machine shop while putting myself through college. This was a shop that did a lot of the stuff I'm discussing.

jp4lsu

I agree with you putting super chargers and all on a truck. It's a truck not a performance vehicle. However, there are belt driven superchargers that will replace the intake (roots superchargers). These are much easier to install than centrifugal supercharger which sit out at the front of the engine and then the air is sent back to the intake. The roots system would be a much easier install I think.

But if you just want 60-80 hp, I think you could get close to that with a CAI, high flow CATS and exhaust (may install headers as well), get a chip/tune whichever you think is best, and maybe throw a lower gear in the rear end to give you more acceleration.

On top of that you may talk to some tuners and see about getting some high performance injectors and fuel pump and ignition system. I haven't done much research on this stuff for trucks and don't know what is out there for the F-150.

Time to do some research, save some money, and get a "to do" list going. Have fun with it.

I just don't know

If you want the 60 to 80 force feed the motor. Do a whipple or a roushe if you can find one. They stopped making them so they are cheap but supposably hard to come by. You can do full bolt ons but it won't get you the gains you want. Only way to do that is force fed. Plane and simple. You figure for a valve job your probably gonna be a couple grand into it plus full bolt ons. That's most of the way to a charger of some type. The fuel system flows plenty of fuel and will support forced induction even up to 8 lbs I believe. Same with the injectors. They will suppose I believe ten lbs maybe more of boost so you have plenty of flow. The ignition system I've heard of people gaining a couple hp from expensive aftermarket systems but I would stick with oem. Cams. You can do them but you have torque cams in and that's best for a truck that's supposed to work and two but that's your choice. MMR makes pretty good cams for this motor I believe. Like stated before these motors flow air awesomely in a stock configuration. My advice force feed your motor and call it done.

jp4lsu

IJDK,
Don't you think he could 40-50 maybe with CAI, Chip/Tune/Program, high flow cats/exhaust, higher fuel pressures, and maybe cams?

We are only talking 15%. I think there is 15% to be had without FI. Just a guess on my part.

By IJDK is right, the roots and whipple chargers are not hard installs. I don't know if I would try to push 10 psi. I'm pretty sure the pistons are cast aluminum and not forged. I didn't realize roush wasn't making them any longer. I've been out of touch for awhile.

I just don't know

With full Bolt ons I would be surprised to see much more than 20 to 25. Like I said I wouldn't do cams if you want to two because they can throw your power curve off and move it up in the rpm range. Look at the dodge ram with the hemi. It's doesn't receive full torque till I believe 4 to 5k rpms. And that's high to me. And you will be just fine at 10 lbs as long as you add a boost a pump. There are quite a few guys on here running good boost one guy is running 13 lbs on a stock bottom end and an upgraded fuel system. I know this stuff from tons upon tons of research and asking people that actually have done all this stuff all so I can hopefully do it in the coming years when finances are better. If you want more power out of a n/a motor though you usually have to raise compression or make it bigger. Your choice. Bolt ons will give you some but in my experience of modding cars bolt ons never return what they advertise.

Scott701

Well, in light of all this info, my mind has been changed a bit.

TC is definitely cool, but I think I would rather just bolt something on.


Thanks for the info All!!!!