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2005 KR 5.4 Rough Idle and Tick

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Old 06-07-2019, 08:26 AM
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Are you 100% positive it isn't an exhaust leak? Those are also a known issue with these trucks.

I avoid "left" and "right" with vehicles; owing to my nautical background, I reference "port" and "starboard."
Old 06-07-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dukedkt442
Are you 100% positive it isn't an exhaust leak? Those are also a known issue with these trucks.

I avoid "left" and "right" with vehicles; owing to my nautical background, I reference "port" and "starboard."
Both manifolds, and all exhaust after the cats is new. Was just inspected and done last week.

Last edited by Roadblock007; 06-07-2019 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Roadblock007
Both manifolds, and all exhaust after the cats is new. Was just inspected and done last week.
Devil's advocate: did you do it, or a shop? Did they cut corners? Were broken studs removed, or just ignored? Were surfaces cleaned properly to allow proper gasket mating? Not saying they aren't, but I know from experience I've had to redo several jobs that shops had done. Also points to the quality of the work done on the timing; just because the work's been done doesn't mean it's been done correctly. Any time a person's income depends on the amount of time invested in doing the job, the person will cut corners every time. The tick could be any of the items mentioned in the thread, ya just don't know unless inspected personally. Could also be as simple as old injectors, '04s and definitely '05s had injector issues IIRC.
Old 06-07-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dukedkt442
Devil's advocate: did you do it, or a shop? Did they cut corners? Were broken studs removed, or just ignored? Were surfaces cleaned properly to allow proper gasket mating? Not saying they aren't, but I know from experience I've had to redo several jobs that shops had done. Also points to the quality of the work done on the timing; just because the work's been done doesn't mean it's been done correctly. Any time a person's income depends on the amount of time invested in doing the job, the person will cut corners every time. The tick could be any of the items mentioned in the thread, ya just don't know unless inspected personally. Could also be as simple as old injectors, '04s and definitely '05s had injector issues IIRC.
I was going to pressurize the exhaust and check for manifold leak anyways.
Old 06-07-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadblock007
The truck was fully warmed up and was driven tgat way for almost 30 minutes so cats should have been at temp. I was thinking I might have a cat that is restricted or plugged, but not sure if the numbers show that.

Any other gauges I should add to my logging screen?

Is there already a port on the fuel rail to attach a pressure gauge?

Under those operating conditions, I would say Bank 2 cat is dead, plugged IDK. That will usually lead to misfires - primarily at idle and on rear cylinders.

Here's my O2 Sensor / Trims Monitor screen. It has some custom PIDs in it. If you like, let me now & I can provide them.





Fuel Rail pressure is best read via OBD with Torque Pro. The FRP reads the pressure "RELATIVE" to intake manifold vacuum. That accurately tells you the pressure ACROSS the injectors -input to output-. (Also monitor Fuel Pump duty cycle to verify your 'Fuel Pump Driver Module' operation)

Last edited by F150Torqued; 06-07-2019 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Removed duplicate 'Quotation'
Old 06-07-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by F150Torqued
Under those operating conditions, I would say Bank 2 cat is dead, plugged IDK. That will usually lead to misfires - primarily at idle and on rear cylinders.

Here's my O2 Sensor / Trims Monitor screen. It has some custom PIDs in it. If you like, let me now & I can provide them.





Fuel Rail pressure is best read via OBD with Torque Pro. The FRP reads the pressure "RELATIVE" to intake manifold vacuum. That accurately tells you the pressure ACROSS the injectors -input to output-. (Also monitor Fuel Pump duty cycle to verify your 'Fuel Pump Driver Module' operation)
What is the loop on, catbed, rearft, and catstat?

Last edited by Roadblock007; 06-07-2019 at 02:17 PM.
Old 06-07-2019, 04:02 PM
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Loop on is "CLOSED LOOP". My wife says I am '****'. But the Fuel System Status maintained by OBDII is 'true' when in "OPEN LOOP" (ie: injector pulse width NOT being controlled by O2 sensors. SO - I flipped it. PID #1103, Bit(A:6). The Torque formula is simply 1-Bit(A:6). It makes more sense to me to know 'positively' when fuel system IS in control.

CatBed is the PCM's calculated temperature for Mid-Bed Catalyst on Bank 1. (Dammit, I can't find the PID for Bank 2 - YET). This one is PID # 099D. Min 0 / Max 2000. Formula = A*256+B. It provides a repeatable visual reference of when CATS should start working, sorta independent of distance driven.

rearft1 and rearft2 are 'calculated' (non sensor based) TRIMS in "%" that the PCM maintains for trim adjustments based on post post cat o2 readings. (Exactly what weight they impose on STFT / LTFT I don't know for sure) Their PIDs for Bank 1 and 2 are PID # 163E and 163F respectively. Both formulas are Signed(A)*256+B.

CatStat is the Status Flag maintained by the PCM indicating whether the Onboard Diagnostic routing for CAT operation has successfully completed 'THIS' drive cycle or not. Each drive cycle, this flag is set - and the PCM monitors the Switch Ratio between upstream and downstream O2 sensors - over some driving conditions. If the Switch Ratio meets factory spec, the status flag is set true (ie: it passed this drive cycle). This is one of about 9 continuous OBD diagnostic 'monitors' the PCM runs continuously. They are all displayed visually in this Torque Dashboard allowing you to observe all of them LIVE as they complete / or do not complete.

EVMV is Evaporative Vapor Management Valve (a/k/a Purge valve - by break booster) current output by PCM to modulate it open. From 0 to 1000 milli amps. This is important because as it begins to open, fuel tank air vapors (UN-METERED BY THE MAF) are drawn into the intake manifold and affect fuel trims / O2 sensor readings.

Last edited by F150Torqued; 06-07-2019 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Trying to FIX the 'link'
Old 06-07-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by F150Torqued
Loop on is "CLOSED LOOP". My wife says I am '****'. But the Fuel System Status maintained by OBDII is 'true' when in "OPEN LOOP" (ie: injector pulse width NOT being controlled by O2 sensors. SO - I flipped it. PID #1103, Bit(A:6). The Torque formula is simply 1-Bit(A:6). It makes more sense to me to know 'positively' when fuel system IS in control.

CatBed is the PCM's calculated temperature for Mid-Bed Catalyst on Bank 1. (Dammit, I can't find the PID for Bank 2 - YET). This one is PID # 099D. Min 0 / Max 2000. Formula = A*256+B. It provides a repeatable visual reference of when CATS should start working, sorta independent of distance driven.

rearft1 and rearft2 are 'calculated' (non sensor based) TRIMS in "%" that the PCM maintains for trim adjustments based on post post cat o2 readings. (Exactly what weight they impose on STFT / LTFT I don't know for sure) Their PIDs for Bank 1 and 2 are PID # 163E and 163F respectively. Both formulas are Signed(A)*256+B.

CatStat is the Status Flag maintained by the PCM indicating whether the Onboard Diagnostic routing for CAT operation has successfully completed 'THIS' drive cycle or not. Each drive cycle, this flag is set - and the PCM monitors the Switch Ratio between upstream and downstream O2 sensors - over some driving conditions. If the Switch Ratio meets factory spec, the status flag is set true (ie: it passed this drive cycle). This is one of about 9 continuous OBD diagnostic 'monitors' the PCM runs continuously. They are all displayed visually in this Torque Dashboard allowing you to observe all of them LIVE as they complete / or do not complete.

EVMV is Evaporative Vapor Management Valve (a/k/a Purge valve - by break booster) current output by PCM to modulate it open. From 0 to 1000 milli amps. This is important because as it begins to open, fuel tank air vapors (UN-METERED BY THE MAF) are drawn into the intake manifold and affect fuel trims / O2 sensor readings.
I would like to and those to my dashboard but can't find them.
Old 06-07-2019, 05:14 PM
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Ahh, Sorry - they are custom PIDs - not part of Federally mandated OBDII parameters. They have to be 'added' to Torque's Custom sensors / parameters database. That's what makes Torque Pro so nice. Find a sensor or parameter that is unique to your type vehicle and just ADD the darned thing. ITS NOT HARD. Note: I use an underscore character in front of all PID's I add to keep them separate from Torque's standard set. Do it like this.

Open Torque Pro, >Settings >Manage extra PIDs/Sensors. Press Menu (three dots) and > Add Custom PID and > OK. Then add all parameters for each one as follows:

Mode/PID: 221103
Long Name: _Loop
Short Nm: LOOP
Min/Max 0/1
Scale
Unit: On/Off
Equation: 1-Bit(A:6)
Header: Auto


Scale, Diagnostic (st/Stp), Override fields can all be Blank for all these.

Mode/PID 220907
Long Name: _Catalytic Converter Inferred Mid-Bed Temperature
Short Nm: CATMBT
Min/Max 0/2000
Unit: Deg f.
Equation: A*256+B
Header: Auto

Mode/PID 22163E
Long Name: _Fuel Trim Bias Bank 1(Rear O2)
Short Nm: REARFT1
Min/Max -100/+100
Unit: %
Equation: Signed(A)*256+B
Header: Auto


Mode/PID 22163F
Long Name: _Fuel Trim Bias Bank 2 (Rear O2)
Short Nm: REARFT2
Min/Max -100/+100
Unit: %
Equation: Signed(A)*256+B
Header: Auto


Mode/PID 22095D
Long Name: _Catalyst Monitor Completed this drive cycle
Short Nm: CATSTAT
Min/Max 0/1
Unit: Y/N
Equation: Bit(B:0)
Header: Auto


Mode/PID 22099D
Long Name: _Electronic Vapor Management Valve Commanded Current
Short Nm: EVMV
Min/Max 0/1000
Unit: Ma
Equation: Signed(A)*256+B
Header: Auto

Of course after Each, Press OK to save them. Then when you long press on a dashboard to 'ADD Gauge', the above long names will appear in the scroll list of sensors for you to select.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:44 PM
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Finally added the custom pids. First pic is first started with truck at high idle. Then the rest are in order through the warm up. The last 3 or 4 are fully warmed up and cruising. The EVMV kept going to Zero. Is that normal?

Anyway. Opinions please.









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