2005 F150 SCREW Dieseling - Theory
08-24-2013, 05:49 PM
#101
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Wooooooooo Hoooooooooooo!
She's back together, fired-up and running great. No phaser slap and a net oil pressure increase of 10PSI (haven't brought it up to full optemp yet ... gotta get the fan shroud/fan back on first and then take her for a spin).
I'll have some more details, but for now it would seem ... mission accomplished.
I'll have some more details, but for now it would seem ... mission accomplished.
08-24-2013, 09:47 PM
#103
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Well...the news isn't quite as good as I hoped ... but the passenger-side phaser is much, much quieter. It was weird though...I took another video with my phone, and it did not sound a whole lot different from that first one I posted a couple of weeks ago. There must be something in the valve train that the microphone on my phone picks-up on (maybe an exhaust leak?!!?) ... but to my 'naked ears' ... it's like night and day compared to the way it sounded before. I pulled-up next to some block fencing in my neighborhood (with the window down) and I could not detect any 'diesel-ish' sounds at all. And my chain slap is completely gone.
However, after taking it for a spin and getting it up to full operating temperature, I would say my oil pressure is pretty close to what it was before.
Prior to the full timing swap, I was seeing PSIs down as low as 22 after the truck had gotten really hot and I was at full-stop, foot-on-brake, transmission in drive. That does seem to be holding about 26 now ... but it is a cooler day here in the Phoenix-area, at "only" 100F. Time will tell (because it will be over 105F again soon), but if my tensioners were leaking down at all, it was very minimal. I did notice some blackening on the front of the engine, on what would have been the outer edges of the tensioners (more on the passenger-side), ......so, I am pretty sure that they were leaking at least a little.
For now...I am happy, satisfied, yet cautiously optimistic. There is a big part of me that wants to go trade this sucker in tomorrow for a new truck with a warranty that would cover me to at least 100K. But then ... I think about how this 'bitch' and I are pretty intimate now and maybe I should keep the ole' girl around, if she treats me well. I think at this point I am going to see how the next 3 months go. If the phaser noise starts to sound like it is coming back (and of course, I'll be checking it daily), I will be looking at new trucks.
The one thing I didn't do that I wanted to was pull the pan and check the oil-pick-up screen ... I may still do that at my next oil change.
(More about the actual timing-job swab in my next post).
However, after taking it for a spin and getting it up to full operating temperature, I would say my oil pressure is pretty close to what it was before.
Prior to the full timing swap, I was seeing PSIs down as low as 22 after the truck had gotten really hot and I was at full-stop, foot-on-brake, transmission in drive. That does seem to be holding about 26 now ... but it is a cooler day here in the Phoenix-area, at "only" 100F. Time will tell (because it will be over 105F again soon), but if my tensioners were leaking down at all, it was very minimal. I did notice some blackening on the front of the engine, on what would have been the outer edges of the tensioners (more on the passenger-side), ......so, I am pretty sure that they were leaking at least a little.
For now...I am happy, satisfied, yet cautiously optimistic. There is a big part of me that wants to go trade this sucker in tomorrow for a new truck with a warranty that would cover me to at least 100K. But then ... I think about how this 'bitch' and I are pretty intimate now and maybe I should keep the ole' girl around, if she treats me well. I think at this point I am going to see how the next 3 months go. If the phaser noise starts to sound like it is coming back (and of course, I'll be checking it daily), I will be looking at new trucks.
The one thing I didn't do that I wanted to was pull the pan and check the oil-pick-up screen ... I may still do that at my next oil change.
(More about the actual timing-job swab in my next post).
08-24-2013, 10:22 PM
#104
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I am guessing that I had close to 30 hours in this timing job. I suppose with a fairer climate in my garage, and a few changes to my methodology, I could have shaved a few hours off of that; however, unless you are just yanking parts, slapping new parts on, and buttoning it back up, I don't think I could have done it in less than 20 hours (on the first try...knowing what I know now, I think I could do it in 15-16 hours). Keep in mind that I meticulously cleaned every single part that came off of the truck before putting it back on. From the fender liners, to the pulleys on the front of the engine, I cleaned it all before re-installing. Heck, I took soft wire brushes to the valve- and timing-covers ... I only wish I had the time to have taken them to somebody for a dip (or I wish I had a bead-blaster).
The first piece of advice I have is drain the radiator. Yes...you can work around the upper and lower radiator hoses, but it is a huge PITA to get the fan shroud out (or in) with the upper hose on...and it is pretty much constantly in your way when you are working on the passenger side of the engine. The same is true with the lower hose when dealing with the power-steering bracket on the driver's side. It's not as obtrusive, but if I were going to do this again, I would absolutely drain the radiator and pull the upper, lower and heater-core hoses (the heater-core hose is a major PITA when trying to get the passenger-side valve-cover on and off.
I did pull the front wheels/tires and wheel-well liners, it absolutely was worth it and made getting to hard-to-reach fasteners much, much easier.
The next piece of advice I have is to consider having your AC drained before you start. I have been told that this may not be a good idea...to have your system 'dry' for an extended period of time; however, I figure the shop is going to do it ... I wish now that I had done it so that I could have disconnected a couple of the AC lines that cause major issues trying to get the passenger-side valve cover out. I did get mine out without disconnecting any AC lines (You have to unbolt the "accumulator" and try to pull it up and away from the valve cover to get the clearance needed). Unfortunately, I broke my passenger-side VCT solenoid getting the passenger-side cover off. So, I reckon, if you are able, remove the VCT solenoid BEFORE you loosen a single valve cover fastener (some newer 5.4L 3V don't allow VCT solenoid removal with the valve covers on) . Oh...and getting the driver-side valve cover off is no picnic either, with that solid steel vacuum line in the way.
The rest of the job was pretty easy. I used the vise-grip method to hold the cams (right behind the phasers), and getting all the marks to line-up on the chains and new crank sprocket and phasers was pretty straight forward. I did have some issues torquing down the passenger-side phaser (that
heater hose!), so I had my neighbor hang-on to the vice-grips while I put the additional 90-degrees of rotation on the phaser bolt.
As many have mentioned, going back together is definitely easier, but of course, I was slowed down by my incessant need to clean everything before putting it back on. It was still a bit of a challenge to get the valve covers back on. Again...how nice it would have been to have the AC disconnected and the upper radiator and heater-core hoses off.
Honestly, I don't know how the hell I got the fan shroud off ... because there was no way I was getting it back in with the upper radiator hose on. So, I did end-up pulling it from the radiator, stuffed a couple rags in the radiator inlet, and strapped the radiator hose up and back to keep it from hemorrhaging radiator fluid all over my garage floor. I did put a bucket down below and caught a couple of the initial splashes from disconnecting the hose ... I think I had to put like 8-12 ounces of yeller back in it when it was all said and done.
Well...I think that's about "it". Good luck if you decide to tackle this project. It is a 'doosy'.
The first piece of advice I have is drain the radiator. Yes...you can work around the upper and lower radiator hoses, but it is a huge PITA to get the fan shroud out (or in) with the upper hose on...and it is pretty much constantly in your way when you are working on the passenger side of the engine. The same is true with the lower hose when dealing with the power-steering bracket on the driver's side. It's not as obtrusive, but if I were going to do this again, I would absolutely drain the radiator and pull the upper, lower and heater-core hoses (the heater-core hose is a major PITA when trying to get the passenger-side valve-cover on and off.
I did pull the front wheels/tires and wheel-well liners, it absolutely was worth it and made getting to hard-to-reach fasteners much, much easier.
The next piece of advice I have is to consider having your AC drained before you start. I have been told that this may not be a good idea...to have your system 'dry' for an extended period of time; however, I figure the shop is going to do it ... I wish now that I had done it so that I could have disconnected a couple of the AC lines that cause major issues trying to get the passenger-side valve cover out. I did get mine out without disconnecting any AC lines (You have to unbolt the "accumulator" and try to pull it up and away from the valve cover to get the clearance needed). Unfortunately, I broke my passenger-side VCT solenoid getting the passenger-side cover off. So, I reckon, if you are able, remove the VCT solenoid BEFORE you loosen a single valve cover fastener (some newer 5.4L 3V don't allow VCT solenoid removal with the valve covers on) . Oh...and getting the driver-side valve cover off is no picnic either, with that solid steel vacuum line in the way.
The rest of the job was pretty easy. I used the vise-grip method to hold the cams (right behind the phasers), and getting all the marks to line-up on the chains and new crank sprocket and phasers was pretty straight forward. I did have some issues torquing down the passenger-side phaser (that
heater hose!), so I had my neighbor hang-on to the vice-grips while I put the additional 90-degrees of rotation on the phaser bolt.As many have mentioned, going back together is definitely easier, but of course, I was slowed down by my incessant need to clean everything before putting it back on. It was still a bit of a challenge to get the valve covers back on. Again...how nice it would have been to have the AC disconnected and the upper radiator and heater-core hoses off.
Honestly, I don't know how the hell I got the fan shroud off ... because there was no way I was getting it back in with the upper radiator hose on. So, I did end-up pulling it from the radiator, stuffed a couple rags in the radiator inlet, and strapped the radiator hose up and back to keep it from hemorrhaging radiator fluid all over my garage floor. I did put a bucket down below and caught a couple of the initial splashes from disconnecting the hose ... I think I had to put like 8-12 ounces of yeller back in it when it was all said and done.
Well...I think that's about "it". Good luck if you decide to tackle this project. It is a 'doosy'.
08-25-2013, 10:56 AM
#105
I dropped mine off at the dealer for estimate. I decided not to tackle this one myself first because of the time and second because of that passenger side valve cover. Interesting though is the reason for the dealer always recommending that the engine be replaced. Their rational is that it is very difficult to track down noises on these engines because they are generally so noisy that it may end up costing you almost as much in labor to track down the noise that you and they are better off with an engine swap. In my case I'm fairly certain my noise is coming primarily from lash adjusters on #2&3 but well they have to diagnose.
08-25-2013, 11:26 AM
#106
Good job getting it done, it is like you said a doosy of a project.
For me I didn't remove the fender liners ( by sounds of it would have made it a lot easier)
I did remove the radiator hoses, I couldn't imagine trying to work around them, IMO I would remove the hoses and drain the radiator for the 5 minutes it takes.
I didn't remove the ac, I did like you did, unbolted the accumulator and pretty much pried the valve cover out, and yes I also broke the connector on the VCT solenoid but it was still usable.
So yes I recommend removed the passenger side VCT solenoid.
Good job man,
Hopefully the phaser noise does not return or become more prevalent than it already is.
For me I didn't remove the fender liners ( by sounds of it would have made it a lot easier)
I did remove the radiator hoses, I couldn't imagine trying to work around them, IMO I would remove the hoses and drain the radiator for the 5 minutes it takes.
I didn't remove the ac, I did like you did, unbolted the accumulator and pretty much pried the valve cover out, and yes I also broke the connector on the VCT solenoid but it was still usable.
So yes I recommend removed the passenger side VCT solenoid.
Good job man,
Hopefully the phaser noise does not return or become more prevalent than it already is.
08-27-2013, 11:11 PM
#107
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Well ... I can hear it coming back. I thought I was just being overly sensitive and paranoid, but after getting home from work, I took my stethoscope to it tonight. The passenger side has a lower-tone tick (starting to become a clunk) to the phaser that the driver's side doesn't have ... just like before.
The noise is nowhere near as loud, but I don't really have any doubts that it will eventually be just as loud as before. !!!! I don't know for sure, but I think I can hear chain noise too. It's not a slap ... so maybe it's just supposed to sound that way ... IDK.
I don't know WTF to do now. I know I have the lockout option, but there HAS to be a reason why that passenger-side phaser is doing this. I'd say that it was being starved for oil and that maybe the tensioner is a little starved for oil too ... but when I put the new stuff on and rotated the engine by hand, that chain got damn tight....as tight as the driver side, that's for sure. In fact, the first time I started to rotate it, the tensioner went ... "pop" and seated into the tensioner arm after just 45-60 degrees of rotation.
Like I said in an earlier post, my oil pressure is about the same. No real difference. I guess my options are pull the pan and make sure the pick-up screen isn't all clogged-up (again tho...I don't think it's oil pressure...!!) ........or just pony-up and buy the lockouts.
Probably before I do that, I am going to try to trade the damn thing in on a new truck. Son of a!
The noise is nowhere near as loud, but I don't really have any doubts that it will eventually be just as loud as before.
!!!! I don't know for sure, but I think I can hear chain noise too. It's not a slap ... so maybe it's just supposed to sound that way ... IDK.I don't know WTF to do now. I know I have the lockout option, but there HAS to be a reason why that passenger-side phaser is doing this
. I'd say that it was being starved for oil and that maybe the tensioner is a little starved for oil too ... but when I put the new stuff on and rotated the engine by hand, that chain got damn tight....as tight as the driver side, that's for sure. In fact, the first time I started to rotate it, the tensioner went ... "pop" and seated into the tensioner arm after just 45-60 degrees of rotation.Like I said in an earlier post, my oil pressure is about the same. No real difference. I guess my options are pull the pan and make sure the pick-up screen isn't all clogged-up (again tho...I don't think it's oil pressure...
!!) ........or just pony-up and buy the lockouts.Probably before I do that, I am going to try to trade the damn thing in on a new truck. Son of a
!
08-27-2013, 11:26 PM
#108
Well ... I can hear it coming back. I thought I was just being overly sensitive and paranoid, but after getting home from work, I took my stethoscope to it tonight. The passenger side has a lower-tone tick (starting to become a clunk) to the phaser that the driver's side doesn't have ... just like before.
The noise is nowhere near as loud, but I don't really have any doubts that it will eventually be just as loud as before. !!!! I don't know for sure, but I think I can hear chain noise too. It's not a slap ... so maybe it's just supposed to sound that way ... IDK.
I don't know WTF to do now. I know I have the lockout option, but there HAS to be a reason why that passenger-side phaser is doing this. I'd say that it was being starved for oil and that maybe the tensioner is a little starved for oil too ... but when I put the new stuff on and rotated the engine by hand, that chain got damn tight....as tight as the driver side, that's for sure. In fact, the first time I started to rotate it, the tensioner went ... "pop" and seated into the tensioner arm after just 45-60 degrees of rotation.
Like I said in an earlier post, my oil pressure is about the same. No real difference. I guess my options are pull the pan and make sure the pick-up screen isn't all clogged-up (again tho...I don't think it's oil pressure...!!) ........or just pony-up and buy the lockouts.
Probably before I do that, I am going to try to trade the damn thing in on a new truck. Son of a!
The noise is nowhere near as loud, but I don't really have any doubts that it will eventually be just as loud as before.
!!!! I don't know for sure, but I think I can hear chain noise too. It's not a slap ... so maybe it's just supposed to sound that way ... IDK.I don't know WTF to do now. I know I have the lockout option, but there HAS to be a reason why that passenger-side phaser is doing this
. I'd say that it was being starved for oil and that maybe the tensioner is a little starved for oil too ... but when I put the new stuff on and rotated the engine by hand, that chain got damn tight....as tight as the driver side, that's for sure. In fact, the first time I started to rotate it, the tensioner went ... "pop" and seated into the tensioner arm after just 45-60 degrees of rotation.Like I said in an earlier post, my oil pressure is about the same. No real difference. I guess my options are pull the pan and make sure the pick-up screen isn't all clogged-up (again tho...I don't think it's oil pressure...
!!) ........or just pony-up and buy the lockouts.Probably before I do that, I am going to try to trade the damn thing in on a new truck. Son of a
!
08-28-2013, 12:02 AM
#109
Well ... I can hear it coming back. I thought I was just being overly sensitive and paranoid, but after getting home from work, I took my stethoscope to it tonight. The passenger side has a lower-tone tick (starting to become a clunk) to the phaser that the driver's side doesn't have ... just like before.
The noise is nowhere near as loud, but I don't really have any doubts that it will eventually be just as loud as before. !!!! I don't know for sure, but I think I can hear chain noise too. It's not a slap ... so maybe it's just supposed to sound that way ... IDK.
I don't know WTF to do now. I know I have the lockout option, but there HAS to be a reason why that passenger-side phaser is doing this. I'd say that it was being starved for oil and that maybe the tensioner is a little starved for oil too ... but when I put the new stuff on and rotated the engine by hand, that chain got damn tight....as tight as the driver side, that's for sure. In fact, the first time I started to rotate it, the tensioner went ... "pop" and seated into the tensioner arm after just 45-60 degrees of rotation.
Like I said in an earlier post, my oil pressure is about the same. No real difference. I guess my options are pull the pan and make sure the pick-up screen isn't all clogged-up (again tho...I don't think it's oil pressure...!!) ........or just pony-up and buy the lockouts.
Probably before I do that, I am going to try to trade the damn thing in on a new truck. Son of a!
The noise is nowhere near as loud, but I don't really have any doubts that it will eventually be just as loud as before.
!!!! I don't know for sure, but I think I can hear chain noise too. It's not a slap ... so maybe it's just supposed to sound that way ... IDK.I don't know WTF to do now. I know I have the lockout option, but there HAS to be a reason why that passenger-side phaser is doing this
. I'd say that it was being starved for oil and that maybe the tensioner is a little starved for oil too ... but when I put the new stuff on and rotated the engine by hand, that chain got damn tight....as tight as the driver side, that's for sure. In fact, the first time I started to rotate it, the tensioner went ... "pop" and seated into the tensioner arm after just 45-60 degrees of rotation.Like I said in an earlier post, my oil pressure is about the same. No real difference. I guess my options are pull the pan and make sure the pick-up screen isn't all clogged-up (again tho...I don't think it's oil pressure...
!!) ........or just pony-up and buy the lockouts.Probably before I do that, I am going to try to trade the damn thing in on a new truck. Son of a
!A similar thing happened to me and I ended up having to go in and do it all again, but that was due to a defective phaser, so at that point I said 429 bucks is worth not having to waste another weekend doing this again. So I sprung for the lockouts.
Keep us posted,
Good luck!
