2004 F-150 5.4 Running Rough
06-29-2017, 02:35 AM
#11
Hi HDHP. Thank you and it's no problem. I understand being busy too! Here's an update.
I just returned from a two month road trip back east. I was going to take my truck to move my daughter out of her college apartment and to Florida, but left it in the garage as I hadn't fixed it yet. I just rented a truck.
Since I've returned, I put a new air filter in the truck and I cleaned the Throttle Body and Mass Air Flow Sensor. When I removed the plastic air filter intake line from the driver's front fender, I found some plastic bubble wrap stuck in the inner fender and blocking most of the tube. I was certain everything would be fixed after doing all that. However, there's really no change. With the upper cam sensor plugged in, it stumbles, hesitates, revs and slows, bucks and almost cuts off. When I unplug only that sensor, it runs OK, but the check engine light is still on. Actually, it does seem to run better with all the other things I've done when I leave that upper sensor unplugged. But, I've noticed with that sensor unplugged, my gas mileage has fallen and the truck has a louder exhaust note on acceleration. So, I'm absolutely still stumped. Why does it only run bad with that sensor plugged in and how can I fix it??
One other question. The new keys I received from FS1 are crappy. They're so difficult to move when turning the ignition off, I'm afraid the key's going to break off. I put in one of my original keys today to try to reprogram it for the new rebuilt computer and it turns the ignition and accessories on, but won't start the truck! That seems to be the only thing the reprogrammed key won't do. What's going on with that? I have no clue.
Thank you all for any help you can provide! I really need to get this fixed without having to give Ford a couple thousand dollars!
I just returned from a two month road trip back east. I was going to take my truck to move my daughter out of her college apartment and to Florida, but left it in the garage as I hadn't fixed it yet. I just rented a truck.
Since I've returned, I put a new air filter in the truck and I cleaned the Throttle Body and Mass Air Flow Sensor. When I removed the plastic air filter intake line from the driver's front fender, I found some plastic bubble wrap stuck in the inner fender and blocking most of the tube. I was certain everything would be fixed after doing all that. However, there's really no change. With the upper cam sensor plugged in, it stumbles, hesitates, revs and slows, bucks and almost cuts off. When I unplug only that sensor, it runs OK, but the check engine light is still on. Actually, it does seem to run better with all the other things I've done when I leave that upper sensor unplugged. But, I've noticed with that sensor unplugged, my gas mileage has fallen and the truck has a louder exhaust note on acceleration. So, I'm absolutely still stumped. Why does it only run bad with that sensor plugged in and how can I fix it??
One other question. The new keys I received from FS1 are crappy. They're so difficult to move when turning the ignition off, I'm afraid the key's going to break off. I put in one of my original keys today to try to reprogram it for the new rebuilt computer and it turns the ignition and accessories on, but won't start the truck! That seems to be the only thing the reprogrammed key won't do. What's going on with that? I have no clue.
Thank you all for any help you can provide! I really need to get this fixed without having to give Ford a couple thousand dollars!
06-29-2017, 06:25 AM
#12
Hi, Vacabirder
I am stumped as well. Maybe try and drive it for a while with that one cam sensor unplugged. I know that is NOT the fix we are looking for but it might be a band-aid for now. I would also try another Ford dealership and talk to the service manager. Tell him everything you have done and ask him if you can talk to a Ford service rep. I do think a rep visits this board once and a while.
Good luck and keep us posted!
HDHP
I am stumped as well. Maybe try and drive it for a while with that one cam sensor unplugged. I know that is NOT the fix we are looking for but it might be a band-aid for now. I would also try another Ford dealership and talk to the service manager. Tell him everything you have done and ask him if you can talk to a Ford service rep. I do think a rep visits this board once and a while.
Good luck and keep us posted!
HDHP
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Vacabirder (07-28-2017)
06-29-2017, 06:33 AM
#13
Hey, Vacabirder there is a section on this forum called Ford Customer Service.......
There are 2 reps Megan and Chad. I do not know if they can help but I would try them. Just copy and paste your post so you don't have to retype everything!
Good Luck
HDHP
There are 2 reps Megan and Chad. I do not know if they can help but I would try them. Just copy and paste your post so you don't have to retype everything!
Good Luck
HDHP
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Vacabirder (07-28-2017)
06-29-2017, 07:48 PM
#14
05 5.4l 3v s.crew lariat
Somehow I feel there may be more codes
But if there aren't . The po340 states a problem with the signal from passenger side cam sensor . Its job is to track the position of the cam phasor which controls the position of the cam . When you unplug it, the PCM decides to ignore the signal and defaults to a preset and fills in something to run .
It is detecting the open circuit of the sensor when it does this . So I would say the plug to it is not causing this . What may be in trouble is the clearance to the fingers of the phasor . It could be crud built up or more likely the phasor is going bad . Phasors start to get distorted and out of shape around the spring area /fingers .
Phasors cost around $220 OEM and don't use aftermarket they are junk most times besides they are not that much cheaper . Phasors work very hard they are constantly changing when off idle . Unfortunately they are best changed with the timing cover off . They can be changed with the valve cover off by wedging chain with a special tool .
See many videos on you tube by ford tech malukoco he is great .Getting the timing cover off is not easy it takes a will and perseverance. Most guys can do it but its a small battle . A full timing job parts is around $1400 but usually happens north of 100k . Most special tools can be avoided, it is a uncomfortable job that can be done with advice on here . Having it done is expensive and you will not get the quality job that most diy guys do .
You should look for wiring harness problems to this sensor as rats/squirrels like to chew on wires. It could be grounding out on engine .Just in case use contact cleaner on sensor plug .
Most people get a sensor reading then jump on the sensor as bad ,well you eliminated that, it seems it telling you the phasor signal is distorted. Inspect the phasor, they are bad about failing .
If you had more codes it could lead to something else .
It is detecting the open circuit of the sensor when it does this . So I would say the plug to it is not causing this . What may be in trouble is the clearance to the fingers of the phasor . It could be crud built up or more likely the phasor is going bad . Phasors start to get distorted and out of shape around the spring area /fingers .
Phasors cost around $220 OEM and don't use aftermarket they are junk most times besides they are not that much cheaper . Phasors work very hard they are constantly changing when off idle . Unfortunately they are best changed with the timing cover off . They can be changed with the valve cover off by wedging chain with a special tool .
See many videos on you tube by ford tech malukoco he is great .Getting the timing cover off is not easy it takes a will and perseverance. Most guys can do it but its a small battle . A full timing job parts is around $1400 but usually happens north of 100k . Most special tools can be avoided, it is a uncomfortable job that can be done with advice on here . Having it done is expensive and you will not get the quality job that most diy guys do .
You should look for wiring harness problems to this sensor as rats/squirrels like to chew on wires. It could be grounding out on engine .Just in case use contact cleaner on sensor plug .
Most people get a sensor reading then jump on the sensor as bad ,well you eliminated that, it seems it telling you the phasor signal is distorted. Inspect the phasor, they are bad about failing .
If you had more codes it could lead to something else .
The following 3 users liked this post by redfishtd:
07-28-2017, 05:25 PM
#15
Thank you redfishtd. That sounds a bit complicated and time consuming for me, so I printed everything out and I'm heading to another well-rated shop to show them what I have and see what they think. Fingers crossed!
07-28-2017, 07:02 PM
#16
LightningRod
@Vacabirder, I believe @redfishtd is dead on point.
The only thing I can add is that: I have said before that DTC descriptions published for P0340 and P0345 (as well as P0344 and P0349) are worded STUPIDLY and horribly misleading. They almost always seem to send troubleshooters off on a rabbit trail looking for cam sensor or wiring (circuit) problems.
While the "CIRCUIT" is electrically monitored for continuity' and can produce a P0340 if it is open or shorted, that isn't hare to eliminate and it is a DAMN shame that a dealership doesn't know 'as much as @redfishtd" - and suggests changing the PCM for $2,200.00 as a guess. If you had let them, next they would have recommended 'replacing the engine' for about $8,0000.00.
Something has failed in the phaser on Bank1. Either the spring broke, something INSIDE the phaser broke, the phaser-cam alignment broke, or if you have broken chain guides and lots of slack in the chain, I suppose it could have jumped a tooth in chain timing on that bank. But as @redfishtd suggests, when the CPS sensor is unplugged, the PCM goes into a failure mode using default settings, and plugged in it THINKS it is doing the proper cam adjustment (which is NOT proper positioning for Bank1 cam).
... The po340 states a problem with the signal from passenger side cam sensor . Its job is to track the position of the cam phasor which controls the position of the cam . When you unplug it, the PCM decides to ignore the signal and defaults to a preset and fills in something to run .
It is detecting the open circuit of the sensor when it does this . So I would say the plug to it is not causing this . What may be in trouble is the clearance to the fingers of the phasor . It could be crud built up or more likely the phasor is going bad . Phasors start to get distorted and out of shape around the spring area /fingers .
Phasors cost around $220 OEM and don't use aftermarket they are junk most times besides they are not that much cheaper . Phasors work very hard they are constantly changing when off idle . Unfortunately they are best changed with the timing cover off . They can be changed with the valve cover off by wedging chain with a special tool .
...
It is detecting the open circuit of the sensor when it does this . So I would say the plug to it is not causing this . What may be in trouble is the clearance to the fingers of the phasor . It could be crud built up or more likely the phasor is going bad . Phasors start to get distorted and out of shape around the spring area /fingers .
Phasors cost around $220 OEM and don't use aftermarket they are junk most times besides they are not that much cheaper . Phasors work very hard they are constantly changing when off idle . Unfortunately they are best changed with the timing cover off . They can be changed with the valve cover off by wedging chain with a special tool .
...
The only thing I can add is that: I have said before that DTC descriptions published for P0340 and P0345 (as well as P0344 and P0349) are worded STUPIDLY and horribly misleading. They almost always seem to send troubleshooters off on a rabbit trail looking for cam sensor or wiring (circuit) problems.
While the "CIRCUIT" is electrically monitored for continuity' and can produce a P0340 if it is open or shorted, that isn't hare to eliminate and it is a DAMN shame that a dealership doesn't know 'as much as @redfishtd" - and suggests changing the PCM for $2,200.00 as a guess. If you had let them, next they would have recommended 'replacing the engine' for about $8,0000.00.
Something has failed in the phaser on Bank1. Either the spring broke, something INSIDE the phaser broke, the phaser-cam alignment broke, or if you have broken chain guides and lots of slack in the chain, I suppose it could have jumped a tooth in chain timing on that bank. But as @redfishtd suggests, when the CPS sensor is unplugged, the PCM goes into a failure mode using default settings, and plugged in it THINKS it is doing the proper cam adjustment (which is NOT proper positioning for Bank1 cam).
07-31-2017, 06:38 AM
#17
Hey 150Torqued
That makes sense! So maybe he could replace the cam phaser that he already replaced. It very well could have been defective from the start!
I have a question.... where do the dealerships get their technicians from? It seems nowadays they do not take pride in their work and don't care if they get it right!
The last time I took my truck to a Ford dealership (For warranty reasons) the tech left a nice flashlight and a 1/4 drive ratchet in my truck.
HDHP
That makes sense! So maybe he could replace the cam phaser that he already replaced. It very well could have been defective from the start!
I have a question.... where do the dealerships get their technicians from? It seems nowadays they do not take pride in their work and don't care if they get it right!
The last time I took my truck to a Ford dealership (For warranty reasons) the tech left a nice flashlight and a 1/4 drive ratchet in my truck.
HDHP
07-31-2017, 12:08 PM
#18
LightningRod
HDHP you sure know how to ask the tough questions. Probably a better chance of me diagnosing on your truck than answering THAT!
But you were lucky to get out of there with a nice flashlight and 1/4 drive ratchet at least! He probably lost that while looking under the seat for the motor! If he had found it you might had been advised it needed replacing. LOL
