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Upgrade Calipers & Bleeding Brake Fluids?

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Old Jan 3, 2021 | 06:21 PM
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Default Upgrade Calipers & Bleeding Brake Fluids?

My calipers are pretty rusted (truck came from Massachusetts) so I am looking to either upgrade or replace them. I am also looking to powder coat/paint them with a pop of color or black.

Are there any calipers worth upgrading while keeping OE spec for better performance or reliability, or is replacing with new ones the only option? I know PowerStop have their "Performance Calipers" painted in red (not the color I'd want) but I am not ready to jump on board with PS yet (mixed reviews). Not looking at big kits - I already bought EBC's OE rotors & performance brake pads.

If I do this - I believe I would have to fully bleed the brakes so what system do you guys recommend I use to bleed them properly?

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Old Jan 3, 2021 | 09:20 PM
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You CAN go with OEM calipers if you wanted.

Not sure what you are calling an 'upgrade'. At this point, it is all an upgrade. The internet is full of "my brakes are junk and I want something better" when what the are really saying is "my brakes are thin, glazed and can't dissipate heat, therefore they sucked from they day there were born". They want to upgrade a brake because the current system has degraded so much.

I haven't done brakes aside from one brake job, in years. My previous GM vehicle needed pads. I had a shop do the previous replacement for some reason. It was in for repair so I had them do new pads while at it (only had to pay parts).
Anyway, when I added new Delco pads (Amazon ~$80) I was amazed at how much better they worked than the thin old junk it replaced. I think the worn out pads were Wagner thermo's which are good. Anyway, I told myself it would be worth it to spend $80 every other year just to get that kind of braking performance instead of waiting for the squeakers to make noise then replace.
That was only pads on OEM rotors pushing 100k mile and nothing additional. Firm pedal and much more grabby. Because they weren't glazed and thin which helps with heat dissipation.

If it were my current vehicle and I needed it to get to work every day and nothing else special, like trailer towing, I'd replace all with OEM parts if price is right. Nothing wrong with OEM calipers. Rotors sort of debatable. Pads, I'd stick with OEM pads too -depending on money. I mean if I could have a verified product like the 'correct' EBC or whatever for a stock vehicle and they were cheaper I'd consider EBC. If they were same cost as OEM, I'd probably just get OEM because I already know how they are meant to work...instead of mixing components with materials that may not be perfect. You don't have that here though has you have matching rotors and pads from EBC so you're good.

Good luck completing this project. It's turning in to a good learning experience if nothing else!
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Old Jan 3, 2021 | 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 16IngotFX4
You CAN go with OEM calipers if you wanted.

Not sure what you are calling an 'upgrade'. At this point, it is all an upgrade. The internet is full of "my brakes are junk and I want something better" when what the are really saying is "my brakes are thin, glazed and can't dissipate heat, therefore they sucked from they day there were born". They want to upgrade a brake because the current system has degraded so much.

I haven't done brakes aside from one brake job, in years. My previous GM vehicle needed pads. I had a shop do the previous replacement for some reason. It was in for repair so I had them do new pads while at it (only had to pay parts).
Anyway, when I added new Delco pads (Amazon ~$80) I was amazed at how much better they worked than the thin old junk it replaced. I think the worn out pads were Wagner thermo's which are good. Anyway, I told myself it would be worth it to spend $80 every other year just to get that kind of braking performance instead of waiting for the squeakers to make noise then replace.
That was only pads on OEM rotors pushing 100k mile and nothing additional. Firm pedal and much more grabby. Because they weren't glazed and thin which helps with heat dissipation.

If it were my current vehicle and I needed it to get to work every day and nothing else special, like trailer towing, I'd replace all with OEM parts if price is right. Nothing wrong with OEM calipers. Rotors sort of debatable. Pads, I'd stick with OEM pads too -depending on money. I mean if I could have a verified product like the 'correct' EBC or whatever for a stock vehicle and they were cheaper I'd consider EBC. If they were same cost as OEM, I'd probably just get OEM because I already know how they are meant to work...instead of mixing components with materials that may not be perfect. You don't have that here though has you have matching rotors and pads from EBC so you're good.

Good luck completing this project. It's turning in to a good learning experience if nothing else!
Based on my research tonight, there is no such thing as an upgrade unless you go big brake kits - which is not my plan. So OEM or OEM-spec calipers it is. Next question is, how do I go about, or which kit do I need, to do a full brake fluid fluid?

You brought up a good point that I didn't even think about - replacing pads every other year instead of waiting until it starts to squeal. That is definitely worth it and the way to go to always have great braking. Will be applying that to all of my cars/trucks.

Your last couple sentences (in bold) is exactly why I'm attacking this project head on. I could have very easily given up and send my truck to the shop for them to do the work. But then, what have I learned from it? Nothing.

Already have learned a lot about brakes over the last two days. Will continue to keep learning... you guys are part of a big reason why I am going to keep going.

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Old Jan 3, 2021 | 09:44 PM
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On the 10th Gens, the 7700 trucks and Expeditions had beefier calipers that could be used when the time came. Not sure if 12th Gens have that available in the parts bin or those parts were shared across the lineup already.

(As cool as that swap would be, my 4.2/8.8” rear isn’t pulling anything to make that worthwhile. Sigh.)
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Old Jan 3, 2021 | 10:10 PM
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Any local powdercoating shop can do your calipers. I don’t think the heat process to do them is that high...400*? See what they say.

As far as bleeding the brakes, a 24-30” piece of clear vinyl hose to fit the bleeder screws and jar is all you need. A helper to push the brakes is always good.

Or if you have compressed air, you can get a bleeder tool. Be sure not to empty the reservoir. BTDT.
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Old Jan 3, 2021 | 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by A930rocket
Any local powdercoating shop can do your calipers. I don’t think the heat process to do them is that high...400*? See what they say.

As far as bleeding the brakes, a 24-30” piece of clear vinyl hose to fit the bleeder screws and jar is all you need. A helper to push the brakes is always good.

Or if you have compressed air, you can get a bleeder tool. Be sure not to empty the reservoir. BTDT.
I don't need to drain the master cylinder and/or the brake reservoir if I am swapping out for new calipers? That's what I need to figure out.

I do have a compressor so that helps.

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Old Jan 4, 2021 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Motivology
I don't need to drain the master cylinder and/or the brake reservoir if I am swapping out for new calipers? That's what I need to figure out.

I do have a compressor so that helps.
if you are going that far replace the fluid. 1,000,001 videos online on how to replace the fluid. all you need is a friend and a wrench -or- a bleeding kit (which is readily available online). what you asked is kinda like saying if i replace my engine i can reuse the same oil i had in the old one, right? sure, theoretically you could but if you are going that far why skimp on the cheapest part?
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Old Jan 4, 2021 | 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 2013_XLT
if you are going that far replace the fluid. 1,000,001 videos online on how to replace the fluid. all you need is a friend and a wrench -or- a bleeding kit (which is readily available online). what you asked is kinda like saying if i replace my engine i can reuse the same oil i had in the old one, right? sure, theoretically you could but if you are going that far why skimp on the cheapest part?
True, good point. I do plan on replacing the brake fluid with new DOT3 fluid. I have to take the fluid out first before un-installing old calipers, right?

I will search videos for it. Thanks.

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Old Jan 4, 2021 | 12:00 PM
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You are essentially going to replace the entire brake fluid system.
Once you open the system it needs to be bled.

I suggest draining the master cylinder as it will reduce time in flushing.
A goal for brake bleed is to remove air. With a new system (empty caliper), you will have a lot of air to push through. Meaning each time you have a helper press the pedal and you open the screw 1/4 turn, you'll get a tiny bit of fluid from the bleed screw.
If you drain the master cylinder and fill with fresh so that as you are bleeding, you don't have to squeeze out a small amount of the old stuff from the MC each time. It will start with fresh fluid. You can also used it to determine when the line is flushed as the fluid will become clear in your clear hose connected to the bleed screw.

If you do the 2-person method you need:
Patience
A patient friend/helper
Good communication

You will be laying on the ground with your wrench on the bleeder with your clear hose attached. You'll tell the helper to press and hold the pedal and that person should not let up until you tell them to.

My dad and I used to do this (I was in the cab)
Dad: pump it up
Me: holding
Dad: Open! (meaning the bleeder is open) At this point I maintain pressure on the pedal until it reaches the floor.
Dad: Closed (meaning it's okay to let up on the peal to return to normal position)
Me: Up -meaning I let up from the pedal so it returns. If the pedal comes up while the bleeder is open you risk vacuuming air BACK into the system. Oops
Dad: Hold the pedal
Me: holding
Dad: Open
Dad.....

For what you're looking to do, a power bleeder may be a good investment. You may used it only once time. You may find it beneficial to use every couple years if you're up for the time, mess and work. It shouldn't be bad (I've never used a power bleeder) but if you aren't up for capturing all the fluid, setting up, etc. You may never do it a 2nd time.
You can also get a hand pump power bleeder. Or you can build your own. Parts and time are nearly similar to the cost of a purchased hand pump bleeder.
Note: it is important to recognize the working pressures. You only need a small amount (you'd have to look up the proper PSI as I do not remember the proper working pressure.
Regardless of the chosen method, learn to watch the MC. You will continually be adding fluid throughout the process. As soon as it's low and you hear that suck sound -you know you get to start over and bleed out the new air that was just sucked in.
Next is to tow it to a brake shop. haha

Purchase extra brake fluid, more than the system requires. Buy it by the gallon or buy several smaller containers. Then you don't run out after a mistake. Return the unopened container(s).

What I do not know though if you will need to do the rears. If you only disconnect the fronts and bleed the fronts, you may be able to only bleed the fronts.
I really do not know if the rear and front are isolated enough to not touch the rears once the brake lines at the caliper are removed.

Traditionally when brake bleeding the pattern is
right rear
left rear
right front
left front
(in order of line length).
I do not know if brake systems today with all the control valves, etc. make that unnecessary.
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Old Jan 4, 2021 | 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Motivology
True, good point. I do plan on replacing the brake fluid with new DOT3 fluid. I have to take the fluid out first before un-installing old calipers, right?

I will search videos for it. Thanks.
as posted you will be replacing everything including the fluid. when i'm changing the fluid i use a turkey baster to suck out as much old fluid as i can from the master, then fill with fresh. that way, as posted above, you are not sucking entirely old fluid through the lines.
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