Anyone thinking of upgrading the turbo?
07-08-2011, 05:49 PM
#1
Anyone thinking of upgrading the turbo?
Hello all, just got my 2011 FX2 last week and already thinking of mods. Question is has someone started messing with the turbo of the Eco boost? Can you change and add a bigger turbo? Etc. Thanks
07-08-2011, 05:58 PM
#2
Master Gunner
Anything is possible with the right application of MONEY!
It comes down to what your overall goal is when contemplating different turbos.
Turbos aren't cheap.
With bigger turbo's come higher fuel requirements (larger injectors, ECU reprogramming, higher capacity fuel pump), larger exhaust requirements and larger intake and intercooler requirements. Maybe even a camshaft change (and there's FOUR of them to replace!). And I doubt you want to spend $3,000-$5,000 for turbo's alone just to get maybe 50HP increase, so you probably want some significantly larger turbo's, OR replace the entire intake and exhaust systems to maximize the power potential from moderately larger turbos.
With more power, you may endanger the durability of the engine (not to mention the aftermarket turbos may not last as long as the factory ones) so you may need to rebuild the motor with higher strength components (rods, crank, pistons).
All that new found power comes with more turbo lag. Which you can offset with a NOS kit to give some oomph at the bottom end before the turbos spool up to their power band. Maybe even lower gears out back.
I have a twin turbo 300ZX so I know from first hand experience all that it entails when upgrading to larger turbos.
It comes down to what your overall goal is when contemplating different turbos.
Turbos aren't cheap.
With bigger turbo's come higher fuel requirements (larger injectors, ECU reprogramming, higher capacity fuel pump), larger exhaust requirements and larger intake and intercooler requirements. Maybe even a camshaft change (and there's FOUR of them to replace!). And I doubt you want to spend $3,000-$5,000 for turbo's alone just to get maybe 50HP increase, so you probably want some significantly larger turbo's, OR replace the entire intake and exhaust systems to maximize the power potential from moderately larger turbos.
With more power, you may endanger the durability of the engine (not to mention the aftermarket turbos may not last as long as the factory ones) so you may need to rebuild the motor with higher strength components (rods, crank, pistons).
All that new found power comes with more turbo lag. Which you can offset with a NOS kit to give some oomph at the bottom end before the turbos spool up to their power band. Maybe even lower gears out back.
I have a twin turbo 300ZX so I know from first hand experience all that it entails when upgrading to larger turbos.
Last edited by Augster; 07-08-2011 at 06:05 PM.
07-08-2011, 06:32 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by Augster
Anything is possible with the right application of MONEY!
Not sure if you noticed, but your EB already comes with turbos
jk. Changing them is going to be just as much or MORE effort and cost as having them added to a 5.0 or 6.2l.
07-08-2011, 07:21 PM
#6
Senior Member
Let's start with the low-hanging fruit.
The stock ECM is holding back a lot of power, so lets focus on that first. The boost peaks around 15 psi at low rpm, but drops down to around 8 by redline. This is done by modulating the wastegate and throttle angle. If you could get it to hold 15 psi to redline, it would likely be worth around 60 hp. And about the throttle angle. . . when your foot is to the floor, the actual throttle blade isn't all the way open. I thought I was crazy when I first saw this on the scanner, but someone else saw it too. The ECM sometimes only gives it <40% throttle when your foot is to the floor (and not just during the shift). Fix the tuning, and you'll get some power.
Next, some have reported well over 30 rwhp with exhaust upgrades. Turbo vehicles are very sensitive to exhaust pressure because the turbine operates at a "pressure ratio". Reducing muffler-induced backpressure by 2 psi can translate into a reduction of 6 psi upstream of the turbine (seen by the engine) and a big power increase.
Next, I've posted on this elsewhere, but I have reason to believe the factory 3.7 camshafts are quite a bit larger than the 3.5 EB's. It may be worthwhile to swap over to them. My estimate is that this could be worth over 50 hp.
If you modify the exhaust, tune and cams (100+ hp) and still aren't happy, then look at the turbo's. They do seem to be marginally sized, but I understand they are BW turbo's with unknown specs. So until we know what they are, we won't know if they can be easily replaced or modified. If they are, in fact, marginally sized, then there could be quite a bit of power available when upgrading.
Augster, where are you buying turbo's? I've bought plenty and never paid anywhere near that.
The stock ECM is holding back a lot of power, so lets focus on that first. The boost peaks around 15 psi at low rpm, but drops down to around 8 by redline. This is done by modulating the wastegate and throttle angle. If you could get it to hold 15 psi to redline, it would likely be worth around 60 hp. And about the throttle angle. . . when your foot is to the floor, the actual throttle blade isn't all the way open. I thought I was crazy when I first saw this on the scanner, but someone else saw it too. The ECM sometimes only gives it <40% throttle when your foot is to the floor (and not just during the shift). Fix the tuning, and you'll get some power.
Next, some have reported well over 30 rwhp with exhaust upgrades. Turbo vehicles are very sensitive to exhaust pressure because the turbine operates at a "pressure ratio". Reducing muffler-induced backpressure by 2 psi can translate into a reduction of 6 psi upstream of the turbine (seen by the engine) and a big power increase.
Next, I've posted on this elsewhere, but I have reason to believe the factory 3.7 camshafts are quite a bit larger than the 3.5 EB's. It may be worthwhile to swap over to them. My estimate is that this could be worth over 50 hp.
If you modify the exhaust, tune and cams (100+ hp) and still aren't happy, then look at the turbo's. They do seem to be marginally sized, but I understand they are BW turbo's with unknown specs. So until we know what they are, we won't know if they can be easily replaced or modified. If they are, in fact, marginally sized, then there could be quite a bit of power available when upgrading.
Augster, where are you buying turbo's? I've bought plenty and never paid anywhere near that.
Last edited by engineermike; 07-08-2011 at 07:38 PM.
07-08-2011, 07:31 PM
#7
Senior Member
dejong and downeast, I'm not sure if you guys have ever added a turbo to a naturally aspirated engine before, but I completely disagree about it being easier to add a turbo to a 5.0 than to upgrade the turbo on a 3.5. It is 10x easier to modify and swap turbo's on a factory turbocharged vehicle than it is to add a turbo to a non-turbo vehicle.
For example, I turbocharged a '95 Camaro Z28. I had to upgrade/add the block, crank, rods, pistons, heads, fuel injectors, fuel injector drivers, fuel pump, ignition system, tuning, exhaust piping, intake piping, intercooler, blow-off valve, wastegate. . . even the MAP sensor (1 bar to 2 bar). Some cars even need new intake manifolds because the factory one isn't designed to hold pressure. It would be a huge undertaking to add a turbo to a 5.0 or 6.2.
That's the great thing about a factory turbo vehicle. The components listed above are already purpose-built for boost. In many cases, upgraded turbos are literally bolt-in to replace smaller factory units. There is actually a big market for stock-appearing Buick GN turbo's. The stock max's out around 350 hp, whereas 600+ can be obtained from a stock-appearing bolt-in turbo.
For example, I turbocharged a '95 Camaro Z28. I had to upgrade/add the block, crank, rods, pistons, heads, fuel injectors, fuel injector drivers, fuel pump, ignition system, tuning, exhaust piping, intake piping, intercooler, blow-off valve, wastegate. . . even the MAP sensor (1 bar to 2 bar). Some cars even need new intake manifolds because the factory one isn't designed to hold pressure. It would be a huge undertaking to add a turbo to a 5.0 or 6.2.
That's the great thing about a factory turbo vehicle. The components listed above are already purpose-built for boost. In many cases, upgraded turbos are literally bolt-in to replace smaller factory units. There is actually a big market for stock-appearing Buick GN turbo's. The stock max's out around 350 hp, whereas 600+ can be obtained from a stock-appearing bolt-in turbo.
Last edited by engineermike; 07-08-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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07-08-2011, 09:13 PM
#8
Master Gunner
Haven't checked prices recently since my Z has been setup for that long now
07-08-2011, 09:31 PM
#9
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http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/05...boost-v-6.html
Is the article on increase of HP via exhaust mods if your interested in reading more.
Is the article on increase of HP via exhaust mods if your interested in reading more.
07-08-2011, 09:41 PM
#10
dejong and downeast, I'm not sure if you guys have ever added a turbo to a naturally aspirated engine before, but I completely disagree about it being easier to add a turbo to a 5.0 than to upgrade the turbo on a 3.5. It is 10x easier to modify and swap turbo's on a factory turbocharged vehicle than it is to add a turbo to a non-turbo vehicle.
For example, I turbocharged a '95 Camaro Z28. I had to upgrade/add the block, crank, rods, pistons, heads, fuel injectors, fuel injector drivers, fuel pump, ignition system, tuning, exhaust piping, intake piping, intercooler, blow-off valve, wastegate. . . even the MAP sensor (1 bar to 2 bar). Some cars even need new intake manifolds because the factory one isn't designed to hold pressure. It would be a huge undertaking to add a turbo to a 5.0 or 6.2.
That's the great thing about a factory turbo vehicle. The components listed above are already purpose-built for boost. In many cases, upgraded turbos are literally bolt-in to replace smaller factory units. There is actually a big market for stock-appearing Buick GN turbo's. The stock max's out around 350 hp, whereas 600+ can be obtained from a stock-appearing bolt-in turbo.
For example, I turbocharged a '95 Camaro Z28. I had to upgrade/add the block, crank, rods, pistons, heads, fuel injectors, fuel injector drivers, fuel pump, ignition system, tuning, exhaust piping, intake piping, intercooler, blow-off valve, wastegate. . . even the MAP sensor (1 bar to 2 bar). Some cars even need new intake manifolds because the factory one isn't designed to hold pressure. It would be a huge undertaking to add a turbo to a 5.0 or 6.2.
That's the great thing about a factory turbo vehicle. The components listed above are already purpose-built for boost. In many cases, upgraded turbos are literally bolt-in to replace smaller factory units. There is actually a big market for stock-appearing Buick GN turbo's. The stock max's out around 350 hp, whereas 600+ can be obtained from a stock-appearing bolt-in turbo.
figured it would be easier because they have nothing and could build it for that turbo but that this truck is already built for another turbo.... that was my thinking.