Larger tire size, effecting trucks computer??
11-18-2009, 10:10 AM
#11
Well, sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but the dealer is absolutely correct. I upgraded my 275 65 18's to 295 70 18's and now my traction control warning light flashes and the brakes apply when I turn. This only happens periodically when I turn at slow speeds and mainly when I am going up or down a grade (not level with the surface I am turning from).
After consulting with the dealer, Ford is aware of the problem and are currently working on a upgraded program, so I am told. I was also told that 1 tire size bigger wouldn't have affected anything.
After consulting with the dealer, Ford is aware of the problem and are currently working on a upgraded program, so I am told. I was also told that 1 tire size bigger wouldn't have affected anything.
11-18-2009, 12:48 PM
#12
Senior Member
Well, sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but the dealer is absolutely correct. I upgraded my 275 65 18's to 295 70 18's and now my traction control warning light flashes and the brakes apply when I turn. This only happens periodically when I turn at slow speeds and mainly when I am going up or down a grade (not level with the surface I am turning from).
After consulting with the dealer, Ford is aware of the problem and are currently working on a upgraded program, so I am told. I was also told that 1 tire size bigger wouldn't have affected anything.
After consulting with the dealer, Ford is aware of the problem and are currently working on a upgraded program, so I am told. I was also told that 1 tire size bigger wouldn't have affected anything.
Are you "absolutely" sure of that premise!?
I wonder why so many others are basically problem free in this regard, with the exception of some TPMS issues if you change wheels along with the tires, or as mentioned here, speedo recalibration issues, that can be corrected or accounted for in one's brain?
I can't wait to get a set of 285's or 295's on my new truck!!
Moreover, I wonder why my large regional Ford dealer has so many new F150's and F250's sitting in front of the showroom, with 305's and lift kits installed, along with a dealer add-on of $5K, on the window sticker.
Remember, the word [absolutely] leaves little wiggle-room.
11-18-2009, 02:09 PM
#13
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NorCAl, I am absolutely sure my truck is not accepting the new tires very well. I am absolutely sure there are 6 other 2009 F-150 owners in my town experiencing the same results after there tire upgrades.
I do feel there is something that can be done to correct this and Ford and the dealers are not letting us owners know about it. I used the same analogy with my dealership that there are quite a few dealers installing lift kits and tires and wheels quite larger than factory under trucks every day and there is no way these trucks are having the issue I am having.
If you would send me the name of your local dealership that is installing the lifts and larger tires I will contact them and see what they are doing different to get around the traction control issue. My local dealership hasn't been any help.
I do feel there is something that can be done to correct this and Ford and the dealers are not letting us owners know about it. I used the same analogy with my dealership that there are quite a few dealers installing lift kits and tires and wheels quite larger than factory under trucks every day and there is no way these trucks are having the issue I am having.
If you would send me the name of your local dealership that is installing the lifts and larger tires I will contact them and see what they are doing different to get around the traction control issue. My local dealership hasn't been any help.
11-18-2009, 02:29 PM
#14
I dont see how you can have a problem wheel speed is wheel speed....... the Traction control functions only come on IF one or more wheels are spinning at A DIFFERENT SPEED.......... so if you installed 4 tires of the same size then they will all spin the same, even in a turn the steering wheel position sensor tells the PMC that your turning and it allows the outside tries to spin faster than the inside tires. SO even if the ACTUAL wheel speed is off the Computer wont know anything different as the steering wheel is showing you are turning and thus will allow the outside wheels to spin faster than the inside wheels. Its an even constant across the board so I dont see this being the issue. BUT IF....... 6 other people are having an issue then, who knows. All of this is provided you kept the original wheels and/or installed the TPMS sensors properly.
11-18-2009, 05:25 PM
#15
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I kept the original wheels and the TPMS hasn't given me any problems. I think the traction control light is actually a combination of the roll stability control, anti-lock brakes, and traction rolled into 1 warning light. I really feel the roll control is what is causing this to happen.
ex. Larger tires and leveling kit equals a higher center of gravity and any grade change while turning makes the sensor think it is at more of a risk of rolling than when at stock height and applies the brakes to compensate, therefore throwing the traction control light. I would also bet this roll stability control sensor has an adjustable setting in the computer if I could find the right dealership or person to talk too. This is just my theory!
ex. Larger tires and leveling kit equals a higher center of gravity and any grade change while turning makes the sensor think it is at more of a risk of rolling than when at stock height and applies the brakes to compensate, therefore throwing the traction control light. I would also bet this roll stability control sensor has an adjustable setting in the computer if I could find the right dealership or person to talk too. This is just my theory!
11-18-2009, 05:59 PM
#16
I dont think it calculates the center of gravity but I guess if your in a turn at a high speed and the vehicle senses your left or right side is tipping then no matter what you are going to fast for the situation and probly should slow down. A roll over is a roll over......... I agree that taller tires will cause your center of gravity to be higher thus lowering the speed threshold of a roll over. However I dont think 2inchs will cause that many issues or reduce your speed that much. Plus even with 35 inch tires your only 1.5 inchs higher off the ground........ ON an FX4. So you would have to be using some type of lift Body or suspension lift inorder to get more than 2 inches with 37 inch tires to get a higher center of gravity.
11-18-2009, 06:17 PM
#17
Senior Member
NorCAl, I am absolutely sure my truck is not accepting the new tires very well. I am absolutely sure there are 6 other 2009 F-150 owners in my town experiencing the same results after there tire upgrades.
I do feel there is something that can be done to correct this and Ford and the dealers are not letting us owners know about it. I used the same analogy with my dealership that there are quite a few dealers installing lift kits and tires and wheels quite larger than factory under trucks every day and there is no way these trucks are having the issue I am having.
If you would send me the name of your local dealership that is installing the lifts and larger tires I will contact them and see what they are doing different to get around the traction control issue. My local dealership hasn't been any help.
I do feel there is something that can be done to correct this and Ford and the dealers are not letting us owners know about it. I used the same analogy with my dealership that there are quite a few dealers installing lift kits and tires and wheels quite larger than factory under trucks every day and there is no way these trucks are having the issue I am having.
If you would send me the name of your local dealership that is installing the lifts and larger tires I will contact them and see what they are doing different to get around the traction control issue. My local dealership hasn't been any help.
What I took exception to, was the statement that the dealer comment, as indicated by the OP in post #1, was “absolutely correct” in stating that one cannot modify the tires (from stock) as this will cause transmission problems and the tire warning light will ALWAYS be on in the dash.
My point was that the word ‘absolutely’ is defined as ‘completely and without qualification’.
I know of no one in my circle of friends and contacts that have had this issue, when going to a larger tire and using the factory wheel and TPMS components. Moreover, I know of no one else in this forum or a sister forum to this one who has experienced this on an ’09 or ’10 truck; I have heard of some who have had TPMS issues when going to a non factory wheel, and of course all will have speedometer error when changing tire diameter from the stock tires.
I called my dealer service department this afternoon and discussed this with an advisor. He laughed and stated that 80% probably change out their tires and this will not cause a transmission problem. He even offered to me, when I change out my tires, the speedometer recalibration service as a courtesy since I bought my truck from them. Folsom LakeFord, Folsom, CA. (916) 353-2040.
Accordingly, while I do believe that you have had an issue with your vehicle, for whatever reason, and that what you say about six of your friends who have ‘09’s or ‘10’s have also had a similar issue with larger tires is also factual, I still do not buy into the thesis that what the other member’s dealer is telling him, is “absolutely” correct. In fact, my dealer tells me this statement is not correct, based on the information available in the thread.
11-18-2009, 07:52 PM
#18
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NorCal, got your point. I agree the tire change wouldn't cause transmission issues but the traction control warning light flashes, as in my case and others locally who have went up tire sizes. Just wanted to give the originator of the thread a heads up to what I and others are experiencing and what I am being told is causing the light to flash.
I did ask the question on here back a few months ago without any replies as to anyone having a similar problem, there were replies, just not anyone having the problem.
I also posted the question on the other f150 forum and some had and were experiencing the same issue and were being told the tire size was causing there traction control light to come on accasionally, as is mine.
The other 6 truck owners experiencing the problem are not friends, I have met them since this problem came up in our trucks. One is a local Doctor who visits the dealership weekly over this and has stirred up quite a stink (so I hear) with them over this issue and still we don't have a solution. I do feel that I and the other owners are getting the run around over this but don't have any other options or resources to turn too.
I did ask the question on here back a few months ago without any replies as to anyone having a similar problem, there were replies, just not anyone having the problem.
I also posted the question on the other f150 forum and some had and were experiencing the same issue and were being told the tire size was causing there traction control light to come on accasionally, as is mine.
The other 6 truck owners experiencing the problem are not friends, I have met them since this problem came up in our trucks. One is a local Doctor who visits the dealership weekly over this and has stirred up quite a stink (so I hear) with them over this issue and still we don't have a solution. I do feel that I and the other owners are getting the run around over this but don't have any other options or resources to turn too.
11-18-2009, 10:24 PM
#19
traction control usually compares road speed per wheel (abs sensors) versus engine speed (rpm),gear (transmission) and speedometer. big tire diameters screw with the correlation between the speedometer and abs sensors. can also throw some onboard gps systems out of whack.
11-18-2009, 10:56 PM
#20
Bye F150, hello F250
Center of Gravity- interesting point. I was reading about the RSC (roll stability control) and it may be possible that a truck that is lifted much more (not sure what that exactly means) would changes its COG much more when turning and if the RSC thought that this was a roll condition, it would apply the brakes to the 1 side to correct what it thinks is a roll... 
Ford is the first automaker to develop AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ technology – an active stability enhancement system that significantly builds upon existing stability control systems on the market today. While typical electronic stability control systems are designed to control yaw or spin-out only, Ford’s AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ goes one important step further.
AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ adds a second gyroscopic roll sensor to determine the vehicle’s body roll angle and roll rate. If this unique roll rate sensor detects that the vehicle is about to roll, the system automatically applies additional countermeasures – such as reducing engine power 15 percent and/or applying brakes to one or more wheels – to enhance vehicle rollover resistance.
AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ – Four Systems in One
AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ is an integrated system of four major components – one more than typical electronic stability control systems. Ford’s exclusive vehicle roll motion sensor sets AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ apart from other automakers’ stability control systems and takes additional steps to enhance vehicle rollover resistance. The system includes:
Anti-lock Brake System (ABS)
Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) – this feature regulates brake pressure to help prevent wheel lock-up when trying to stop the vehicle.
Traction Control
When the system detects a loss of traction, this quickly responds by reducing engine power when necessary and selectively applying brake force to the slipping wheel while transferring power to the opposite wheel. It helps give drivers a more seamless and controlled driving experience.
Yaw Control
This component helps drivers avoid skidding and fishtailing. When understeer (which leads to skidding) or oversteer (which leads to fishtailing) is detected, the system selectively applies individual brakes and modifies engine power to maximize control.
Vehicle Roll Motion Sensor (a Ford exclusive)
Ford-exclusive AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ utilizes a gyroscopic sensor to help monitor vehicle roll motion approximately 150 times per second. If it detects the possibility of a rollover, the system automatically engages AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ to help keep all four wheels safely on the ground. This feature is especially beneficial when a vehicle is fully loaded.
Stability Control Plus Choice
On/Off Switch – For added security: AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ is automatically engaged each time the vehicle is started. However, a center-console button allows drivers to turn the system off on the rare occasion, such as during low-speed off-roading, or in deep snow or mud, when they may want the wheels to spin freely to help the tires "dig" for traction.
An Extra Measure of Control
The Ford AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ system adds another dimension of advanced technologies and software to monitor and control a vehicle’s roll motion during extreme maneuvers. AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ continuously calculates if the vehicle may be approaching a situation where rollover is probable and takes additional action to help enhance rollover resistance.
AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ adds a second gyroscopic roll sensor to determine the vehicle’s body roll angle and roll rate. If this unique roll rate sensor detects that the vehicle is about to roll, the system automatically applies additional countermeasures – such as reducing engine power 15 percent and/or applying brakes to one or more wheels – to enhance vehicle rollover resistance.
AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ – Four Systems in One
AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ is an integrated system of four major components – one more than typical electronic stability control systems. Ford’s exclusive vehicle roll motion sensor sets AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ apart from other automakers’ stability control systems and takes additional steps to enhance vehicle rollover resistance. The system includes:
Anti-lock Brake System (ABS)
Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) – this feature regulates brake pressure to help prevent wheel lock-up when trying to stop the vehicle.
Traction Control
When the system detects a loss of traction, this quickly responds by reducing engine power when necessary and selectively applying brake force to the slipping wheel while transferring power to the opposite wheel. It helps give drivers a more seamless and controlled driving experience.
Yaw Control
This component helps drivers avoid skidding and fishtailing. When understeer (which leads to skidding) or oversteer (which leads to fishtailing) is detected, the system selectively applies individual brakes and modifies engine power to maximize control.
Vehicle Roll Motion Sensor (a Ford exclusive)
Ford-exclusive AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ utilizes a gyroscopic sensor to help monitor vehicle roll motion approximately 150 times per second. If it detects the possibility of a rollover, the system automatically engages AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ to help keep all four wheels safely on the ground. This feature is especially beneficial when a vehicle is fully loaded.
Stability Control Plus Choice
On/Off Switch – For added security: AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ is automatically engaged each time the vehicle is started. However, a center-console button allows drivers to turn the system off on the rare occasion, such as during low-speed off-roading, or in deep snow or mud, when they may want the wheels to spin freely to help the tires "dig" for traction.
An Extra Measure of Control
The Ford AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ system adds another dimension of advanced technologies and software to monitor and control a vehicle’s roll motion during extreme maneuvers. AdvanceTrac® with RSC™ continuously calculates if the vehicle may be approaching a situation where rollover is probable and takes additional action to help enhance rollover resistance.