Ethanol Free gas and the EcoBoost
01-12-2012, 12:04 AM
#41
Senior Member
We have one fuel supplier up here that has "ethanol-enriched" gasoline and since they increased the level of ethanol, all their octane ratings dropped. Along with that I noticed a huge effect on fuel economy, and have since switched to one of the local stations that still advertises real "gas"oline.
Last edited by nolagtime; 01-12-2012 at 12:09 AM.
01-12-2012, 10:41 AM
#43
Senior Member
Originally Posted by nolagtime
We have one fuel supplier up here that has "ethanol-enriched" gasoline and since they increased the level of ethanol, all their octane ratings dropped. Along with that I noticed a huge effect on fuel economy, and have since switched to one of the local stations that still advertises real "gas"oline.
01-20-2012, 06:45 AM
#44
I just wanted to pick on the bit of your post that I quoted here. I wish everyone would understand that Ethanol does NOTHING to reduce our oil consumption. It takes more energy (oil) to create ethanol than you get out of it. This is due to the fact that farmers use diesel powered equipment to grow the corn to make the fuel.
The lie that ethanol will reduce our dependency on oil is propagated by our government and the only way it is "cost effective" is because of government subsidies.
Thanks for posting the link to the gas station website, I wasn't aware of that and will be using these more in the future.
The lie that ethanol will reduce our dependency on oil is propagated by our government and the only way it is "cost effective" is because of government subsidies.
Thanks for posting the link to the gas station website, I wasn't aware of that and will be using these more in the future.
12-01-2019, 02:19 AM
#45
Junior Member
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E85 EcoBoost
You are 100% right about getting better mileage with non ethanol fuel, however as ethanol burns cleaner than gas you are wrong about the soot problem being caused by the ethanol. In my 5.4L if I use e85 my truck is way more responsive and has more power than when running regular gas or even 10% ethanol, but at the cost of using more fuel, however the ecoboost isnt made to run e85 so I would just stick with regular gas or e10 if I was you. I notice about a 1-2 mpg gain when using regular gas vs 10% and about 4-5 when using regular vs e85, however if the e85 is 20% cheaper its the break even point on $ per mile.
12-01-2019, 01:37 PM
#46
well I would like to say any car can run e85 just gotta get it tuned for it. I have my ecoboost on ethanol free gas and haven't seen much difference yet. Next will be to get a tune and go to e85. Honestly I already slap around other mustang's and hellcats and mostly anything. My ecoboost is stage 2 turbo kit with cold air intake. Anyways ethanol free gas is to be determined. I doubt it gives more power to the car. May have on mileage possibly.
12-01-2019, 11:00 PM
#47
Senior Member
I'd like to throw my two cents in on this, as someone who works in the ethanol industry, and is in ethanol plants pretty regularly.
First, before they denature it, it's quite a potent alcohol - yes, I have taste tested it, and yes, it's far harsher then moonshine, LOL!
Getting back to cars, I have tried this same exact test, however, I went a little further, and used 4 different cars, and used the same filling station for all of it, and drove the exact same routes with them. Each car was filled, and driven for an entire tank of fuel.
Cars used -
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4.0L I-6
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4.7L V8
2004 Ford Police interceptor sedan, 4.6L V8
2006 Ford Explorer 4x4, 4.6L V8
I found something very interesting in my testing - the older the vehicle, the better the gain. The two Jeeps did very well, with the '95 showing the greatest gain in mileage, plus the best driveability gain. It idled smoother and had more seat of the pants power with ethanol free fuel, and the 2000 showed similar results. During my ownership of these two cars, I tried to keep ethanol free fuel in both of these vehicles as often as possible, as the fuel mileage gains outweighed the higher cost of the ethanol free fuel in these two cars. (I still have the '95 Jeep.)
The 2004 Ford showed some gains, and ran a little better on ethanol free fuel, but the gains in fuel mileage just about washed out with the increased price of fuel.
The 2006 Explorer was the loser of the bunch, only showing a .5 MPG increase in fuel mileage, with no driveability benefits noted at all. As you may imagine, this miniscule improvement did not translate to any savings at all, in fact costing more per tank to fuel with ethanol free fuel.
I started thinking it over, and it occurred to me that the Jeeps were built in a time when the gas was pretty much pure gas, and their PCM tuning was set for that blend of fuel, so in effect by putting E10 in them, it's basically watering the fuel down as far as the PCM in those cars was concerned, with ethanol having a lower energy content of gasoline.
The 2004 Ford was built right at the time they were beginning to phase out MTBE, so there may have been a few tweaks to the PCM programming to help it digest, so to speak, but certainly not optimized at all. Plus, being a police-spec car, the tune was a little hotter anyways, so maybe not the best car to include here.
Likewise, with the Explorer, that car was built SOLIDLY in the ethanol revolution, so this car's PCM is likely tuned for that blend of fuel, thus explaining why it really doesn't care what it's drinking, as long as it goes boom. I still own the Explorer, and while I haven't tried it yet, I would almost bet that I could go to a blender pump and likely get up to 30% ethanol in it before it sets a DTC, or otherwise shows ill effects from improper fuel.
I have NOT tried this in my '09 F150, as this truck is E85 capable, mostly because I do not suspect that it will show any difference at all due to having an ethanol content sensor in the fuel system. I'm sure once the ethanol gets below X percentage, the PCM will default to the "low ethanol" tuning, and it will in effect, behave identically to the Explorer.
Now, where ethanol is GREAT is for forced induction engines. The Ecoboost engine should run far better on E85 thanks to the far higher octane rating that ethanol has. This should allow higher boost, and much stronger performance. Of course, you have to have higher fuel flow for this, which of course, gets you worse mileage.
I fully respect the sentiment here given by the OP and by Fuel Testers, and I would love to see the return of pure gasoline. However, ethanol is a very viable additive that is far safer than MTBE, and when used correctly, can be very beneficial to performance. Of course, the best thing would be to perfect the cellulosic process, so we could use complete crap like switchgrass.
Hey, one guy's thoughts here.....
Tim
First, before they denature it, it's quite a potent alcohol - yes, I have taste tested it, and yes, it's far harsher then moonshine, LOL!
Getting back to cars, I have tried this same exact test, however, I went a little further, and used 4 different cars, and used the same filling station for all of it, and drove the exact same routes with them. Each car was filled, and driven for an entire tank of fuel.
Cars used -
1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4.0L I-6
2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4.7L V8
2004 Ford Police interceptor sedan, 4.6L V8
2006 Ford Explorer 4x4, 4.6L V8
I found something very interesting in my testing - the older the vehicle, the better the gain. The two Jeeps did very well, with the '95 showing the greatest gain in mileage, plus the best driveability gain. It idled smoother and had more seat of the pants power with ethanol free fuel, and the 2000 showed similar results. During my ownership of these two cars, I tried to keep ethanol free fuel in both of these vehicles as often as possible, as the fuel mileage gains outweighed the higher cost of the ethanol free fuel in these two cars. (I still have the '95 Jeep.)
The 2004 Ford showed some gains, and ran a little better on ethanol free fuel, but the gains in fuel mileage just about washed out with the increased price of fuel.
The 2006 Explorer was the loser of the bunch, only showing a .5 MPG increase in fuel mileage, with no driveability benefits noted at all. As you may imagine, this miniscule improvement did not translate to any savings at all, in fact costing more per tank to fuel with ethanol free fuel.
I started thinking it over, and it occurred to me that the Jeeps were built in a time when the gas was pretty much pure gas, and their PCM tuning was set for that blend of fuel, so in effect by putting E10 in them, it's basically watering the fuel down as far as the PCM in those cars was concerned, with ethanol having a lower energy content of gasoline.
The 2004 Ford was built right at the time they were beginning to phase out MTBE, so there may have been a few tweaks to the PCM programming to help it digest, so to speak, but certainly not optimized at all. Plus, being a police-spec car, the tune was a little hotter anyways, so maybe not the best car to include here.
Likewise, with the Explorer, that car was built SOLIDLY in the ethanol revolution, so this car's PCM is likely tuned for that blend of fuel, thus explaining why it really doesn't care what it's drinking, as long as it goes boom. I still own the Explorer, and while I haven't tried it yet, I would almost bet that I could go to a blender pump and likely get up to 30% ethanol in it before it sets a DTC, or otherwise shows ill effects from improper fuel.
I have NOT tried this in my '09 F150, as this truck is E85 capable, mostly because I do not suspect that it will show any difference at all due to having an ethanol content sensor in the fuel system. I'm sure once the ethanol gets below X percentage, the PCM will default to the "low ethanol" tuning, and it will in effect, behave identically to the Explorer.
Now, where ethanol is GREAT is for forced induction engines. The Ecoboost engine should run far better on E85 thanks to the far higher octane rating that ethanol has. This should allow higher boost, and much stronger performance. Of course, you have to have higher fuel flow for this, which of course, gets you worse mileage.
I fully respect the sentiment here given by the OP and by Fuel Testers, and I would love to see the return of pure gasoline. However, ethanol is a very viable additive that is far safer than MTBE, and when used correctly, can be very beneficial to performance. Of course, the best thing would be to perfect the cellulosic process, so we could use complete crap like switchgrass.
Hey, one guy's thoughts here.....
Tim