5.0 knocking at idle, becoming louder/worse...
#131
Senior Member
Now that this thread has been around for quite some time how many of you (if still around) have higher mileage 5.0’s with the knock still present? My 2013 has been doing this since I bought it with 69k and now has 87k. The noise seems to be louder during the winter months but I have had no issues with oil consumption and it still runs great. I am hoping to go 200k on this truck and just curious if anyone has actually had a catastrophic failure due to whatever the cause of the knock is. I have heard of guys north of 200k that heard the noise early on and had no issues.
#132
Senior Member
Is 162k "higher mileage"? No knock here.
Hoping to go 300k minimum.
Hoping to go 300k minimum.
#133
Senior Member
I think there are plenty of 150-200+k 5.0s around. I was thinking about this today while my truck was warming up and the knock was definitely audible to hear it from 5 ft away. I am just curious if anyone actually had a catastrophic failure from it. I have read a lot of people saying it’s not right, it’s fords engineering problem, warranty replacements ect but I have not heard of any blown engines due to whatever is causing the noise.
#134
212k. Knocks at idle forever. BPM app shows the sound at 300 beats per minute at its 600 RPM idle revealing the camshaft component as the source of my engine's noise.
2011my
2011my
#135
Senior Member
#136
Senior Member
I have a short trip hot idle knock when in park. Started around 75,000 American miles, 2 years ago. Hasn't gotten any worse. Trucks runs great.
My neighbor bought a 2012 with a blown 5.0 for $6k. Spent $5K for a junkyard 5.0 and install. His sounds identical to mine.
My neighbor bought a 2012 with a blown 5.0 for $6k. Spent $5K for a junkyard 5.0 and install. His sounds identical to mine.
#138
So I used the BPM app on your "knock" on your video and it timed around 300 BPM, cam speed related.
The experts can chime in here but my opinion is (and I'm at 212k w/ the sound and 1qt oil per 3k miles* forever):
Rod and Piston related noise will time at the RPM rate: 600 RPM idle = 600 "knocks" per minute
Camshaft turns at 1/2 the crankshaft rate so camshaft related "knock" will time at 300BPM at 600 RPM idle.
I tried to use an audio spectrum analyzer to capture the "knock" frequency but couldn't isolate the "knock" with such apps.
You can start a 10 second stopwatch and count the "knocks" you hear in 10 seconds and then multiply by 6 to determine the rate (300 or 600)
I found an app called "BPM" (I'm not associated with) for beats per minute which basically you listen to the "knock" and tap your phone in sync with the sound and it will display the frequency of Beats Per Minute (frequency).
I think Ford should tell us what causes the cam phaser related noise (300 bpm) since they are telling us it is normal. My guess is a cam impulse based phaser slap from the un-pressurized phaser at idle. I'd have to put a scope on the phaser oil solenoid to correlate the 300 bpm "knock" with the solenoid activation signal but I'll defer that to those with more interest. I have not read elsewhere nor seen on the forums of rampant camshaft/phaser related repairs on the coyote so my opinion is this camshaft related noise is an idle annoyance. Seems the concern of the repairs is on the block due to an out of round cylinder which in my opinion would always result in a 600 beat per minute idle "knock".
Some coyote observations:
This engine in my 2011 consumes oil since I bought it at 151k: 1qt per 3k normal driving, *1qt per 2k towing a 7700 TT in the mountains (3k RPM in 4th uphill, sometimes 4k RPM in 3rd). These numbers have not changed in the 70k miles I've put on it. A catch can caught less than 1/5 of that however the catch can captured significantly more after mountain towing. I removed the can after a year. Appears some coyotes make oil vapor at higher RPMs. I always run synthetic and my oil changes are up to 12K when not towing and 6K when towing the TT around the country.
I add this oil consumption data-point because if I had a 600 BPM "knock" and increasing oil consumption I'd be concerned a piston was ruining a cylinder.
The experts can chime in here but my opinion is (and I'm at 212k w/ the sound and 1qt oil per 3k miles* forever):
Rod and Piston related noise will time at the RPM rate: 600 RPM idle = 600 "knocks" per minute
Camshaft turns at 1/2 the crankshaft rate so camshaft related "knock" will time at 300BPM at 600 RPM idle.
I tried to use an audio spectrum analyzer to capture the "knock" frequency but couldn't isolate the "knock" with such apps.
You can start a 10 second stopwatch and count the "knocks" you hear in 10 seconds and then multiply by 6 to determine the rate (300 or 600)
I found an app called "BPM" (I'm not associated with) for beats per minute which basically you listen to the "knock" and tap your phone in sync with the sound and it will display the frequency of Beats Per Minute (frequency).
I think Ford should tell us what causes the cam phaser related noise (300 bpm) since they are telling us it is normal. My guess is a cam impulse based phaser slap from the un-pressurized phaser at idle. I'd have to put a scope on the phaser oil solenoid to correlate the 300 bpm "knock" with the solenoid activation signal but I'll defer that to those with more interest. I have not read elsewhere nor seen on the forums of rampant camshaft/phaser related repairs on the coyote so my opinion is this camshaft related noise is an idle annoyance. Seems the concern of the repairs is on the block due to an out of round cylinder which in my opinion would always result in a 600 beat per minute idle "knock".
Some coyote observations:
This engine in my 2011 consumes oil since I bought it at 151k: 1qt per 3k normal driving, *1qt per 2k towing a 7700 TT in the mountains (3k RPM in 4th uphill, sometimes 4k RPM in 3rd). These numbers have not changed in the 70k miles I've put on it. A catch can caught less than 1/5 of that however the catch can captured significantly more after mountain towing. I removed the can after a year. Appears some coyotes make oil vapor at higher RPMs. I always run synthetic and my oil changes are up to 12K when not towing and 6K when towing the TT around the country.
I add this oil consumption data-point because if I had a 600 BPM "knock" and increasing oil consumption I'd be concerned a piston was ruining a cylinder.
The following 2 users liked this post by 22david:
2011_aka_Ticky (03-02-2021),
[F2C]MaDMaXX (03-02-2021)
#139
Senior Member
Thanks for your reply. Unexpected and appreciated.
I have a times worried it was a rod bearing issue, but the rhythm and sound location never really coincided with that. Also, it's been the same, no worse, for 2 years. I've heard the identical "knock" on several videos and in person on a few F150's so it must be a very common issue. It does seem to be upper driver side pronounced on my truck, hence the location of my video. I did buy a mechanics stethoscope a month or so ago, but winter. So I haven't really tried to pinpoint. Between suspension, brakes, steering, switches and most other common 12th gen issues, this truck has kept me busy with other things.
If someone in person could tell me definitively it was a VVT solenoid(s) issue, or really any head component up to including a complete new head assembly, well I'd be hanging over my fender pretty quickly. The truck just runs so well otherwise.
The knock is really only noticeable after short drives when the truck is up to temp. If I go for a hwy drive and then idle afterwards, it`s not there. So I have always thought it was an oiling issue.
I did use to burn about 1/2 quart running on synthetic 5w20 every 1500 miles, since switching to synthetic 5w30, whatever I'm burning now isn't measurable on the stick between oil changes.
I have a times worried it was a rod bearing issue, but the rhythm and sound location never really coincided with that. Also, it's been the same, no worse, for 2 years. I've heard the identical "knock" on several videos and in person on a few F150's so it must be a very common issue. It does seem to be upper driver side pronounced on my truck, hence the location of my video. I did buy a mechanics stethoscope a month or so ago, but winter. So I haven't really tried to pinpoint. Between suspension, brakes, steering, switches and most other common 12th gen issues, this truck has kept me busy with other things.
If someone in person could tell me definitively it was a VVT solenoid(s) issue, or really any head component up to including a complete new head assembly, well I'd be hanging over my fender pretty quickly. The truck just runs so well otherwise.
The knock is really only noticeable after short drives when the truck is up to temp. If I go for a hwy drive and then idle afterwards, it`s not there. So I have always thought it was an oiling issue.
I did use to burn about 1/2 quart running on synthetic 5w20 every 1500 miles, since switching to synthetic 5w30, whatever I'm burning now isn't measurable on the stick between oil changes.
#140
Senior Member
The noise I hear from mine is identical to the above video. Gives me some piece of mind that others have the same noise without issue, and my truck does run great at the moment. Thanks for the info and replies!