Damn Dirty Ape

iTrader: (1)

I love posts that sound like there is info inside when it is just the op not using a question mark.

//V

I just bought my 2012 FX4 this past weekend so I will share some of my experiences. I disagree with some of the information here about how to approach the process, but different people operate in different ways.

Rebates will be the same for you no matter what dealer you buy from and no matter what options you choose for your vehicle. Sales tax will be applied to your purchase no matter what dealer you buy from or what options you choose (assuming you live in a state that has sales tax). Therefore, it is my opinion that you should not be talking about OTD price when negotiating with the dealer. The best way to compare prices is to talk about the sale price of the truck, before any rebates, fees or taxes that will all remain constant for the most part (obviously tax will vary some depending on how your truck is optioned and the final sale price).

In my opinion this simplifies the process greatly. MSRP will be roughly the same for identical vehicles (the base price varies some depending on the invoice date; trucks invoiced later in the model year will have a higher base price). Dealer invoice will also be the same, subject to the same variation in base price. X plan pricing is also the same and will be just slightly over invoice.

X plan price is a great price. Invoice price is a better price obviously. If you can buy below invoice, you have done well.

I initially started my search by telling dealers I had an X plan pin. I did this because I had a friend who could get me X plan pricing and told me it would save me quite a bit of money. While X plan pricing is good, I quickly realized that I could do better if I just negotiated a price myself without X plan. In fact, in my quest to buy my truck, I spoke with at least half a dozen dealers, and all of them were willing to sell me a truck at least at invoice price, if not lower.

Almost all dealers list their new inventory online. Browse the websites of dealers you would consider buying from and make a list of trucks that are optioned the way you want them. Then start calling them. Tell them you are looking to buy a truck at invoice price or lower and ask them for their absolute best price on the truck(s) you are interested in at their dealership. Be sure to specify that you want their price before any rebates. They will give you a story about why they cannot sell at or below invoice, or explain to you why it is worth it to you to buy from them even if their price is a bit higher. Be firm and tell them you have quotes in writing from other dealers willing to sell at or below invoice. You may encounter some dealerships that simply will not sell at that price. That is fine. It is true it is easier for higher volume dealerships to sell at that price and some smaller dealers just will not. So be prepared to simply say thank you and move on.

Almost every dealer will tell you they can get the truck you want even if it is not on their lot. This is true, they can trade (so to speak) inventory with another local dealer or buy one from a dealership further away. I wanted to buy from my local dealership, but they didnt have the truck I wanted on their lot. They could have brought it in from Seattle, but they would have had to buy it from that other dealership at invoice, and without trading inventory, they would not be able to dip into the dealer holdback to sell to me below invoice.

In the end I had a couple dealers working for me, which gave me good perspective on what prices I could get. I was always open with them, explaining that I was talking to other dealers and this is what they were offering. I did not do so in an attempt to manipulate, simply to inform them. Ultimately, they could choose to back out of any potential deal if it did not make sense for them financially to continue to deal with me. This is what ultimately happened. When I told my local dealer the price quote I had gotten from a Seattle dealer, he did his best to come up with a solution to match but ultimately he could not, and he told me I should take that deal. No hard feelings, its just business.

Finally, a note on rebates. If you finance through Ford credit you can get an extra 1000 dollar rebate. Of course, Ford rarely offers the best interest rate, so taking this rebate likely only makes sense if you can refinance in the first month or two at a lower rate. Call some local banks or credit unions and get pre approved to refinance and find out what rate you would qualify for. Then use a calculator like bankrate to do the math and see if it makes sense to take the rebate and refinance or to just go with a low interest rate loan right off the bat and skip the Ford financing and extra rebate.

I purchased my 2012 FX4 last weekend for 850 below invoice and I took 4000 in rebates (including the Ford credit rebate). I financed with ford credit at the dealership for a ridiculously high rate, but I am pre approved at my credit union at a much lower rate, so I will refinance with them in the next month. So, all told, I bought my truck for $9,250 off MSRP after rebates.

Moral of the story: base your price comparisons off dealer invoice, secure financing in advance, talk to a lot of dealers to get the best price.

Super long post I realize, but that is my buying story. Maybe some of that info is helpful. Feel free to pm me if I can help in any other way.

FXBOOST

I personally would wait for the 2013! Why buy a year old truck that's depreciated. Only way I would touch it, when the dealer told me there taking $12k off.

okif150

I also bought last week. A 2012 Harley. The rebates do not appy the same to all models. Some trucks get more than others. The smart game (yes it is a game) is to get a comitted price from the dealer. The dealer will not want to do this so the F&I guy can mark it up or down. You may be approved for 3%, nothing down and 84 months but the dealer is going to hit you up higher. He may tell you 8%, 5000 down and 60 moths. And if you don't take the extended warranty and GAP and whatever the dealer pushes he will mark up your interest rate to try and make up the difference.

Best thing is to use is the dealer against themselves. They will compete. Check on your financing and hey if the dealer is lower, take it. Now the extras, well that is a personal choice. You may want to just bite the bullet and roll it all in or wait a while. I think the GAP insurance is not a bad thing. They drop a lot of money quick after you buy it.

Don't get too many inquires on your credit report (8 won't hurt for the same purpose). Pick a lender you want and tell the dealer which lenders he can send your app to. He will shotgun it if you let him. I know they don't like to be told what to do but you have to look out for yourself. One final piece of advice. When the guy is telling you about extended warranty. He most likely will not tell you who it is with. He will try and slip a third party one in for more profit. Ask the delaer if it is Ford ESP warranty. Might surprise you with the answer.

portajim

Tip - Know exactly how much $$$ you are willing/can spend and don't ever go above that number. EVER!!! If you follow this rule you will most likely be pleased with your purchase.

NorCal-09

Yes, I agree with your opine here.

I never let them try and obfuscate the transaction with any other distractions, such as the dealer add-on sticker, or the rebates/incentives etc.. Some dealers will try and convince you that the factory rebate is the sole discount on the deal. I first work strictly off of the Total MSRP figure on the Federal Monroney.

Then after you have reached an acceptable Cap Cost on the vehicle, you can then figure in the rebates, sales tax, license fees; and of course, the cost of the money, be it a lease or a purchase.

The most important item is that bottom line Cap Cost on the vehicle....how much off of Monroney are you going to give me!! If they ever continue to try and work off of a dealer mark-up sticker (many dealers use this) just walk away and never look back.

Umbra Vipera

From my own experience in April, X-plan price is not a good deal. I beat that by $3000 when I purchased my FX4. Technically speaking, if the OP doesn't have access to X-Plan pricing, we shouldn't muddy the waters here with X-plan talk. It's not relevant.

Let me see if I can directly answer the questions with my opinions, albeit slightly out of the order asked.

+1 to billf's post and PinGorilla's post.

I went the Internet route via consumerreports.org (I do have a subscription to some of their services but I don't think it is required to use the car buying service) and went through a process almost identical to the one that billf detailed. I also completed the process from about the same stand point as you are looking at (no trade, financing already to go, etc.) I bought my '12 FX4 that stickered for $46,665 for around $38,000 (I don't remember the exact number) with zero haggling. That included all the rebates but I guarantee there weren't $8000+ in rebates available.

There are some varying philosophies in regards to out the door (OTD) or buying price. //V for example likes to deal with the purchase price of the truck leaving out the rebates and such. He’s absolutely right that all the rest (rebates, tax, etc.) either cannot or does not change for any given vehicle. In my opinion //V’s methods cuts out the crap and prevents the salesperson/dealer from using rebates and terminology to confuse the situation. It is also my opinion however that OTD price is basically the same haggling process, but you have to be aware of what’s going on and be willing to do the math. So if the dealer says she/he will sell you a $46,000 truck for $41,000 and that includes the $5000 in rebates, then you’re obviously not getting a good deal.

The short answer is research. You should also re-read billf's post. There are a many websites that provide detailed vehicle pricing. Edmunds.com, kbb.com, truecar.com, consumerreports.org, and the list goes on. The numbers provided by those sites are rarely exact but fairly close.

That leaves me with your fourth question which was should you ask to see the dealers invoice. In my opinion if you are armed with the information from the websites and if you use an Internet referral service such as the one offered by Consumer Reports or Truecar.com you won't need to ask the question.

ousuxndallas

Only suckers try to negotiate face to face when buying a new vehicle.

You are buying a commodity. Email/fax 10-15 dealers within 200 miles of you with the exact truck you want, down to the tire size and floor mat style. Tell them you are buying this exact vehicle in the next 7 days, and you need their one-time best price.

1/2 or more won't respond, or will try to get you to come into the store. Don't do it.

Call the top 3 bidders to confirm their bid, and double check if that is their best price. Walk in, sign paperwork, and walk out. Don't agree to anything beyond your deal. No extended warranties, no add-ons, nothing.

Always take the Ford financing to max out your rebates (don't worry about the interest rate), then get a credit union to re-finance within 30 days at a much lower rate. Win-win.

mallardhen

My daughter thought new car shopping was fun. Nope, the fun ends after the test drive. I live in Alaska and decided early on that I was not going to purchase a vehicle in state. Why would I buy a vehicle and only receive the rebate amount off sticker???!!
We have family in the south, so I started looking in the large metropolitan areas for a truck. I started out wanting only leather heated seats, but those are found only in upscale trucks. Once I started deciphering window stickers, I decided I wanted a few more gadgets.
I found a few dealerships offering $8-$10K off the sticker of vehicles I'd chosen from their inventory. One salesman told me I HAD to buy the mandatory dealer package. Nope, sorry. I don't. Goodbye. Another dealer had a couple of trucks, but dang, they had just sold them. Haha! Anyway, I kept coming back to one dealership and sales person in particular, who I felt was not condescending to me because I was female nor trying to feed me a bunch of mess. He was straight forward and helpful. I felt like he wanted to sell me a truck and I didn't feel like I was getting taken. Bottom line is that I just purchased an FX4 with the luxury package.
Sticker started at $51,320. There was $2000 discounted on the sticker. After rebates and additional dealer discount, I paid $40,999. I could have paid $500 less for the same truck at a different dealer, but wasn't comfortable with sales person's tactics. It took me about 2 weeks to complete the whole process.

BleedGreen

We took the Ford financing rebate although already pre-approved at our local bank but were told that we had to keep with Ford Credit for 4 months to keep the rebate. Anyone know for sure that it is only 1 month? Thanks!