2010 5.4L 3V Rough Idle - Help
 

Hi Folks,

Read a number of helpful threads related to my issue, still no luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Back in may, my 2010 F150 5.4L 3valve through a P0345 bank 2(drivers side) with a P0349 pending. I added oil (was at half mark on dipstick), and cleared codes. They never came back, BUT:

• Over the last 4 months, have developed constant rough idle when hot outside and when oil was fully heated up. Shakes the whole truck! Would always clear up once driving (increasing RPMs).
• Recently put on new motorcraft plugs (originals had 74K), and the truck idle got a little worse now. Missing at idle and when accelerating.
• Replaced Driver side VCT solenoid. No change to rough idle. Old solenoid had no damage, no dirt/sludge in oil passageway.
• Never missed an oil change, always used synthetic, always used motorcraft oil filters. Currently at 75,000 miles.
• Cleaned throttle body and maf.

Should I bother replacing the passenger side VCT? Should I replace all the COPs? Any ideas? Some threads mention:

- Alternator diode issues could cause this.
- Bad alternator ground issue.
- Bad cam position sensor.
- Bad cam phaser?
- Bad alternator ground

Thanks for your time and help.

Rather than continue to throw parts at it, sounds as if it needs to be diagnosed by a technician.

As per Google search ...

Battery checks out good.


Visual inspection of the wires and connections to cam position sensor and alternator look good.


I haven't had the best luck getting the truck fixed at the dealership in the past. But may have to give it another try. Alarmingly, after the plug change the truck is now running rough at speed and idle (before it was only at idle). Was thinking COPs, but don't want to keep pumping money into it.


I will report back on what is found.

Does it make a knocking noise at idle as well? Sounds an awful lot like camshaft phasers heading/headed south.

how in the heck does a faulty starter motor have anything to do with his symptoms?


You aren't throwing any codes? even if the light on the dash isn't on, hook it up to a scanner (free at auto parts store) and see if anyting is in there. Could also be MAF issues. Pull it and see if it is clean and/or clean it with MAF cleaner.

Ask the interweb. As noted ... The "possible causes" are verbatim as per the "Google search".

As per the related ...Reference: -REFERENCE-
.

Yep, cleaned out the maf, it looked great, but cleaned it again anyhow.


Yes, making a knocking noise at idle as well...can feel the vibrations through the valve cover, but I have heard worse coming out of these 5.4's...

Interestingly some folks have indicated in the past, mostly mustang forums, that alternator diode issues caused some electrical voltage issues that caused rough idle etc. I had the alternator tested by a mechanic, said it was ok, but I was tempted to go ahead and through a used one ($60) on it to test this theory. Just as long as its not a low oil pressure issue.

I have heard varying degrees of knocking from these things from bad phasers. I have done timing sets and phasers on probably well over 100 of these by now. Some are worse than others.
Sounds like this is your issue. Do yourself a favor and if you do phasers do the whole timing set (chains, tensioners, guides) while you are in there. I have had MANY with cracked or completely broken guides, blown out tensioner gaskets, etc.

Before replacing the timing set check the hot oil pressure. If it is not 30psi at idle consider installing the Livernois cam phaser lock-outs while you are in there.

My truck was doing the same. The last time is occured was april 2nd hasnt done it since ... the only things ive done dofferent is that i started using royal purple oil and Wix XP pil filters instead of motorcraft. A little more expensive but a higher quality oil... and i also replaced my battery as it was starting to show signs of dieing.

Im not saying to do those things as mentioned above but im going to continue using RP oil and see how much longer i can go without the problem coming back.... my truck is currently at 160k miles.

We offer a complete, permanent solution for the 4.6 and 5.4 3 Valve modular engine's cam phaser issues. Our cam phaser noise repair kit will eliminate the moving portion of the cam phasers that is lacking lubrication by locking them in place, this quietens them up significantly. Of course we always recommend to make sure there are not any other issues like a broken timing chain guide or something similar while doing this installation.

Other than the usual culprits, these engines are very durable and have been proven to live a long trouble free lifespan.

We have customers telling us every day that they wish they would have found our solution sooner. You could replace all of the timing components but that won't help with the phasers not getting the oil pressure and lubrication they need.

If we can help with anything or if you have any questions about the kit please don't hesitate to reach out to us. :D

Could be plugs or COP, or combo of both. Most times these song throw codes but are annoying as heck. Worth a check anyhow I'd think.

Have had similar issues. 2004 F150 Lariat, 5.4, 170K miles

3 months ago engine light. Rough idle, some knocking. Code P0022, Suggest replace Cam Sensor (Bank 2) Drivers side. Done engine light off and running fine.

3 weeks ago, engine light. rough idle, no knocking. Codes P0022 - Intake Position Timing - Over Retarded (Bank 2), Code P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1).

Suggest replace VCT Sensor Bank 2. Did that and cleaned MAF Sensor with Appropriate Spray. Still a rough idle, not horrible, but rough.

Faulty Part? Removed just replaced VCT and put in a new replacement VCT. Engine light again. Still rough idle and pulls the same codes P0022 and P0171.

Any suggestions on next steps?

Thanks in advance for your help!

blackcactus, anything turn up from it?

Wrong tread.

Mine did the same 2 yrs ago, I threw in 2 new phasers, 2 new chain tensioners, new chains and guides.

Turns out it was one my tensioners leaking oil which caused my phasers to fail.

Good luck...took me 7 hrs to swap it all.

I’ve had the exact same problem. Common on this engine when it has not been properly maintained. Easy test, pull the plugs on the cam phasers. Drive it, it won’t have the power but will still go highway speeds. If that quiets the engine you know that is the problem. BG makes a kit to flush the tarnish and I have changed the oil several times. Pennzoil Platinum full synthetic 5w 30 was highly recommended because it has lots of detergents in it that will clean out the crank case as it is regularly changed. It’s also good to use a motorcraft filter as it is engineered differently from an aftermarket. Haven’t had an issue since.

Hello I would like to to get a quote on the cam phaser issue

I have a 08 5.4 170k I retimed the engine bought it non running it starts right up and runs fantastic until the engine reaches exactly 190 degrees then it idles rough no matter how you treat it it will be nice and smooth idling all the way up to 189.9 but the first time you touch the throttle at all over 190 it idle rough until it cools down still runs well and lots of power but idles really rough like everyone else I have a code saying cam and saying advancing/retarding full timing kit with phasers and vvts it does have a very weak battery from sitting. And its now been at the dealer for diagnoses for well over a month they don't know anything yet I tried unplugged the vvts before the problem and it still had the problem my only leads asking everywhere I can think of is oil pressure but if its oil pressure why can it idle perfect for literaly hours as long as you don't touch the throttle at all it runs really rough and shakes often a light ticking knock kinda noise but usually pretty quite just sound like a engine about to stall

I HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM with my 2004 5.4L 3V

i have replaced both of the VCT solenoids, with motorcraft, the screens were trashed.
i replaced both of the Cam sensors cuz i was getting cam timing codes.

then i discovered an intake manifold leak in the back next to the firewall, so i replaced the whole manifold and gasket.
still kept getting Rich AND Lean codes, so i replaced all 4 o2 sensors - rockauto had all 4 Bosch for the same price as 1 at the parts store.

and yet it still showed bad cam timing codes, Too Rich, and Too Lean codes... im like how the hell can it be Rich AND Lean at the same time......
then it hit me.... i remembered seeing an odd looking injector when i pulled the manifold out. so i replaced that one injector for like $25 on rockauto. (love rockauto)
and it finally started running like a normal truck again.
drove it around the block, it felt strong like bull and was able to light up the tires again lol. but as soon as it hit 190ºF it **** the bed and turned back into a pumpkin again.......
im like WTF!!!

im debating using Phaser Blocks and just be done.... but id rather not if i can actually fix it.
so i started watchin youtube videos again to see if there was something i missed.

i love watching that Makuloco guy on youtube. that dude knows a lot about these damn trucks.

one thing i just found is, and im about to just burn the truck down and walk away....he says its the cam shaft bearings.
he says when the motor warms up, and the phaser go to work, the oil pressure drops and it trips the phasers, because the gap between the cam and bearing is letting all the oil flow freely.
he said you can change out the oil pump and increase the flow... but im like F THAT MESS !! and now im thinkin bout just changing to a thicker oil and drive it till it i can buy another truck.


here is the video where he talks about 5.4L 3V oil pressure.


hot idle phaser knocking


please holler if anybody has a real fix for phaser limp mode at 190ºF.

I'd say you want a "fake" fix, not a real one - the real one is what you've posted.


Yes, you can try a thicker oil, going to a 5w30 shouldn't be able issues at all, but if your engine has worn badly, you're just patching over the cracks.

The ultimate fix.

I have the exact same problem, have youever fixed it?

can anyone tell me what oil galley plugs stay open and which stay plugged on the bottom of the cylinder heads. Where they face the deck of the block.

Puschase
 

I have a 09 fx4 5.4 with same issue but mechanics haven't heard of them and I'm not confident enough to try myself..Where is link for the part and how much should this cost in labor

Super rough idel no power
 

Hey guy's! So I'm having similar problems also. I have a 2006 F150 5.4L Lariat for about 6 months now. Had a rebuilt tranny 3 months ago. $4,000 🇨🇦. Engine ran Great. Then about a month ago it thru a P0345 & P0349. A few days later the wife got 4 blocks and it died. Unfortunately so did the battery loosing any new codes. Then I had a "Crank No Start" for almost 8 days! 1st thing I did was change both camshaft sensors. It took over a week to finally get it running! During that time I changed/cleaned/inspected both camshaft sensors, safety neutral switch, egnition switch,grounds,vacuum, no Schrader valve but could hear the pump come on & and check spark on 4/8 coils, fuses& relays etc. New battery also. On the 9th day I had seen a video of a guy holding down your trip button and then turning your key forward. So I did and to my surprise it started and now ran. But it run/runs "like a bag of cats man" The night before I cleaned the throttle body and MAF sensor. It's been over a 2nd week now and was able to do short trips for codes due to how bad the idel is. EVERY TEST I GET CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSORS CODES! Plus now, all 4 o2's. The bank 2 sensor 1 was "high voltage and the other 3 kept changing from either stuck/rich or lean. So I replaced both o2's on the #2 side, did another short trip for codes and the last 4-5 times, I'm getting camshaft sensors( No Surprise) plus only the new sensor ( bank 2 sensor 1) saying it's rich & lean now lmao!
On another thread a few ppl said it may be the Phasor on the #2 side. I'm going on 3 weeks and just about ready to push it off a cliff man! Then I seen this discussion with similar issue and started thinking could it be the VTC solenoid? Before I take the valve covers off and drop the pan for inspection I was just looking for anyone that may have had similar issues or just something I might have missed before tearing everything down. I read somewhere hear about getting camshaft positioning sensors codes over and over and it could be phasers or VCTs? Appreciate any info guys! Thanks!
I'm assuming there's a way to test the VCTs ?
Was going to due the plugs ($220) & PLUG remover kit lol ($100) but, all 12 tests I keep getting camshaft positioning sensors codes. So I've held off thinking it may be top end problems.

https://www.f150forum.com/f107/oil-p...triton-487543/

I tapped the oil galley plug on the back of the passenger head to put mechanical oil gage and it is very accurate showing true oil pressure feeding the passenger side phaser ( the one that usually gets starved of oil 1st being at the end of the line for getting oil).

Same issue, different truck...
 

I know that there is quite an age gap, but I used to have a 97 expedition, Eddie Bauer edition with the 5.4. I was in a tight spot and needed a vehicle fast, which is the only reason I'd bought it regardless of its rough idle. They slapped a valid sticker on it and sent me on my way. For the entire time I owned that truck before the frame broke over the rear end, I had changed every spark plug, every coil, alternator, fuel filter, pcv valve, fuel rails, injectors, throttle position sensor, tried lighter, and thicker oil... Needless to say the price tag was certainly catching up quick with the retail tag. I had eventually given up and drove it until I saw cab mounts poking through the back floor.

How do I find you guys
 

I sure need it for my truck. I can't even use it and I love my truck. She just sits there. How much it cost? Where to buy? Thanks

Increased Oil Flow
 

Also, the oil filter itself can be seriously improved upon over the Motorcraft 820s:– Ford Motorcraft Oil Filter FL-820S, .7 quart capacity, bypass valve rating = 16 psi

– Ford Racing Performance Parts (FRPP) # CM-6731-FL820, .7 quart capacity, bypass valve rating = 16 psi

540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths (wordpress.com) (See Section 49) The P.E.that runs this site cut open 35 different oil filters to find out their construction.

Here is his comments on this filter:
"

Ford Racing Performance Parts (FRPP) # CM-6731-FL820
Made in the U.S.A.
Mounting thread is Metric 22mm x 1.5
Mounting seal OD = 2.91″, ID = 2.47″
Bypass valve rating = 16 psi
Max Flow Rate = 11-13 GPM (gallons per minute)
Outer casing wall thickness = .022″, which is 83% thicker than the standard Ford Motorcraft FL-820S just below. That provides much better burst strength protection. This filter has the same outer dimensions as the standard Ford Motorcraft FL-820S. So, it holds the same impressive .7 of a quart of oil (read as 7 tenths of a quart of oil) as the standard FL-820S. This FRPP oil filter media provides an EXTREMELY impressive 250 square inches of filtering surface area, which is 25% more than the standard Ford Motorcraft FL-820S just below.

That extra filtering surface area means less restriction to oil flowing through the filter, which in turn means less pressure drop going through the filter. So, more pressure on the outlet side of the filter, means more oil flow can be pushed through the engine. (My Note: An increase of oil flow can only help our cam phasers) Flow is lubrication, and of course that is very important in racing conditions. Ultimately, an engine’s bearing clearances determine how just how much oil can flow through it at a given pressure. But, the extra pressure and flow coming from a less restrictive oil filter, helps ensure that the engine is provided as much oil as the oiling system is capable of providing.

And a lower restriction oil filter can also benefit daily driver vehicles as well. Here’s why. The lower the filter restriction, the less the bypass valve will open during cold start-up and during warm-up driving. That means less unfiltered oil flowing through the engine. So, if you are looking for the best oil filter for your daily driver, or your weekend Hotrod that doesn’t actually go to the track, this oil filter is well worth considering.

This oil filter is extremely well made with quality parts. Its filter media is glued well to its end caps. And it has a far superior, more costly, metal bypass valve assembly design, which is located at the top just under the threads, which prevents any debris in the bottom of the filter from entering the engine when the bypass opens. In addition to that, its bypass valve assembly is very well sealed at its installation joint location, so that dirty oil cannot make its way past the joint. It also has a thicker outer casing wall than a standard oil filter, as indicated above. And it also has a higher quality rubber mounting seal. All in all, the design quality, the specs, the features, the capabilities, and the construction quality, justify this being called a Racing Oil Filter.

CONCLUSION:
This Top Tier oil filter is the “BEST of the BEST” designed and constructed Automotive spin-on oil filter I have seen. I will now be using this oil filter on some of my own vehicles. And at the beginning of 2020, it cost only $17.00 at Summit Racing Equipment, which makes it one of the very best “cost vs quality” values around. Here are some oil filters that this Ford Racing Performance Parts (FRPP) # CM-6731-FL820 oil filter can directly replace:

Ford Motorcraft # FL-500S, depending on the particular vehicle’s fit/clearance

Ford Motorcraft # FL-820S"

100% the Cam phazers, I had the same issue....twice, on the same engine and year.

Have you used the kit from Livernois Motorsports? My 2009 occasionally runs rough at idle, mostly after pulling a trailer. I can press the gas and it goes back to normal. It did get rough several times in a row last weekend, though after pulling my fishing boat for a 1.5 hour one way trip to the lake. My local mechanic tells me that the timing chain needs to be replaced along with some other parts totaling a little over 2k. He says replacing the phaser, timing chain, etc is the only way to fix it. This kit would save some money, though.

mine was doing this as well. Plus a lack of power on hills. It was a worn cam and in canada we have parts shortages so I decided on a fresh rebuild. Still took about 3 months.
Good as new now.

these F150's are not fixable
one time use
mechanics do not even want to deal with them
disposable like toilet paper
if it breaks anything other than something very minor just throw it away
the cost to fix is FAR more than the trucks are valued at , even at today's hysterical inflation imposed on necessities from the Great Reset

I thought about using livernois but your tuner is so cheesy looking

Thats your opinion. My trucks great, yes it will cost money to fix any vehicle. But some of us have almost mint condition vehicles, that just need maintenance.

I had a dealership quote me 6500 Canadian to do a complete rebuild. My trucks value is 16k. So after the rebuild my truck would be good for another 10 years..

No truck debt vs 60k for a newer truck... that 6500 is cheap