Really new at this - Help please!
02-26-2014, 06:06 AM
#1
Master Member
Thread Starter
Really new at this - Help please!
Ok, so here goes! First before I get flamed for nit using the search button, I have no idea in what to search for! I have looked all over and still I am lost!
To begin, I am looking for better quality overall sound in my 2010 STX scab.
What does an amp provide you? Is it just louder? Or is there something I am missing? I am already 60% deaf in left ear and 35% deaf in right ear. LOUD is not going to help that situation
I do not like the heavy loud thumping I hear from the cars with that bass. I am a little to old for that, plus it just annoys the heck outta me
I want to replace my front door speakers and probably leave the backs as is. I rarely turn them on due to my deafness, can't hear that distance. But it seems everybody has preferences. Alpine, pioneer, Yadah Yadah Yadah. How do you know which speakers to buy? 2 way, 3 way, 4 way- paper cones, Mylar cones, reinforced cones.
All of this is really daunting to try and overcome for somebody who has no idea.
I want to keep my stock head unit, I like the original built in look. But I want better.
Where do I start?
Amp?
Speakers?
And yes of course there is a budget so I can't go nutso! And then does more $ mean better? I know it doesn't always!
Then I also see Amp cables, 4AWG, 8 AWG? Which ones?
Oh yeah almost forgot - I have Sirius and plan on keeping it. It's an in dash model. It is a add on to the stock unit, was a isimple piece. (I could be wrong with the name. But the shop out it in)
OMG I am do confused!
To begin, I am looking for better quality overall sound in my 2010 STX scab.
What does an amp provide you? Is it just louder? Or is there something I am missing? I am already 60% deaf in left ear and 35% deaf in right ear. LOUD is not going to help that situation
I do not like the heavy loud thumping I hear from the cars with that bass. I am a little to old for that, plus it just annoys the heck outta me
I want to replace my front door speakers and probably leave the backs as is. I rarely turn them on due to my deafness, can't hear that distance. But it seems everybody has preferences. Alpine, pioneer, Yadah Yadah Yadah. How do you know which speakers to buy? 2 way, 3 way, 4 way- paper cones, Mylar cones, reinforced cones.
All of this is really daunting to try and overcome for somebody who has no idea.
I want to keep my stock head unit, I like the original built in look. But I want better.
Where do I start?
Amp?
Speakers?
And yes of course there is a budget so I can't go nutso! And then does more $ mean better? I know it doesn't always!
Then I also see Amp cables, 4AWG, 8 AWG? Which ones?
Oh yeah almost forgot - I have Sirius and plan on keeping it. It's an in dash model. It is a add on to the stock unit, was a isimple piece. (I could be wrong with the name. But the shop out it in)
OMG I am do confused!
Last edited by Brucem609; 02-26-2014 at 06:16 AM.
02-26-2014, 10:50 AM
#2
Ok, so here goes! First before I get flamed for nit using the search button, I have no idea in what to search for! I have looked all over and still I am lost!
To begin, I am looking for better quality overall sound in my 2010 STX scab.
What does an amp provide you? Is it just louder? Or is there something I am missing? I am already 60% deaf in left ear and 35% deaf in right ear. LOUD is not going to help that situation
I do not like the heavy loud thumping I hear from the cars with that bass. I am a little to old for that, plus it just annoys the heck outta me
I want to replace my front door speakers and probably leave the backs as is. I rarely turn them on due to my deafness, can't hear that distance. But it seems everybody has preferences. Alpine, pioneer, Yadah Yadah Yadah. How do you know which speakers to buy? 2 way, 3 way, 4 way- paper cones, Mylar cones, reinforced cones.
All of this is really daunting to try and overcome for somebody who has no idea.
I want to keep my stock head unit, I like the original built in look. But I want better.
Where do I start?
Amp?
Speakers?
And yes of course there is a budget so I can't go nutso! And then does more $ mean better? I know it doesn't always!
Then I also see Amp cables, 4AWG, 8 AWG? Which ones?
Oh yeah almost forgot - I have Sirius and plan on keeping it. It's an in dash model. It is a add on to the stock unit, was a isimple piece. (I could be wrong with the name. But the shop out it in)
OMG I am do confused!
To begin, I am looking for better quality overall sound in my 2010 STX scab.
What does an amp provide you? Is it just louder? Or is there something I am missing? I am already 60% deaf in left ear and 35% deaf in right ear. LOUD is not going to help that situation
I do not like the heavy loud thumping I hear from the cars with that bass. I am a little to old for that, plus it just annoys the heck outta me
I want to replace my front door speakers and probably leave the backs as is. I rarely turn them on due to my deafness, can't hear that distance. But it seems everybody has preferences. Alpine, pioneer, Yadah Yadah Yadah. How do you know which speakers to buy? 2 way, 3 way, 4 way- paper cones, Mylar cones, reinforced cones.
All of this is really daunting to try and overcome for somebody who has no idea.
I want to keep my stock head unit, I like the original built in look. But I want better.
Where do I start?
Amp?
Speakers?
And yes of course there is a budget so I can't go nutso! And then does more $ mean better? I know it doesn't always!
Then I also see Amp cables, 4AWG, 8 AWG? Which ones?
Oh yeah almost forgot - I have Sirius and plan on keeping it. It's an in dash model. It is a add on to the stock unit, was a isimple piece. (I could be wrong with the name. But the shop out it in)
OMG I am do confused!
Start with replacing your door speakers. Your budget will determine how good they are. I had Kicker 6x8's 2 ways in my 2011 and they were like $60 a pair. Then if you want to add a sub for a little low end PAC makes an adapter that will give you the outputs you need. It is plug in play so it is it easy.
My advice is to replace the door speakers first. Then come back to the forum if you want to add an amp (which you probably won't) or a sub.
02-26-2014, 01:05 PM
#3
Dazed and Confused
If you are new, a good place to start is Crutchfield.com. They are a little more expensive but have A+ customer service and lifetime tech support. They have tech advisors who find out what you want and make recommendations with what fits and within your budget. You can also enter your truck information and it shows what will fit with user reviews. If you purchase from Crutch they also send installation instructions which were very helpful to me (how to remove door panels...how to remove stock head unit).
02-27-2014, 10:31 AM
#4
Master Member
Thread Starter
Thanks but still more questions!
Ok, think I found the speakers I want. Polk db691.
An Amp, like to do it, not sure about all the necessary wiring (omg it looks tough)
How hard is it?
An Amp, like to do it, not sure about all the necessary wiring (omg it looks tough)
How hard is it?
02-27-2014, 10:36 AM
#5
Senior Member
Based on your hearing issues, you might want to consider doing nothing. It's likely that no matter what you do you won't hear the difference. Just sayin'.
If you decide to proceed, you should get an understanding of your hearing loss. What frequencies can you not hear? How do those correlate with music? So, you wouldn't want to get some good speakers that handle high frequency better if you're deaf for high frequency.
If you decide to proceed, you should get an understanding of your hearing loss. What frequencies can you not hear? How do those correlate with music? So, you wouldn't want to get some good speakers that handle high frequency better if you're deaf for high frequency.
02-27-2014, 01:07 PM
#6
Seņor Member
Bruce, Polk DB691s won’t fit your doors. They are 6x9, you'd have to modify the mounting to accommodate those by cutting the door panel.
You need 6x8's (which are direct fit), or 6x7 (need an extra mounting bracket), or 5 1/4"s (need an extra mounting bracket).
With the mounting brackets the 6x7s or 5 1/4"s work just fine.
Info to cover your original post:
With your hearing loss, you need to design your system for clarity. Which is the same with me. I have horrible tinnitus which I earned from designing large audio systems in college and sitting in front of large subwoofers pushing tons of power day in and day out. So, here some generic education, then I’ll describe what I’m doing with my truck.
The stock speakers have paper cones which were designed to just get the noise out of the radio.
The stock stereo, even though it has many good features, only has an output of about 10-15W per channel,
this isn't really enough to push aftermarket speakers. You'll need the amplifier to get enough umph to push aftermarket speakers.
Also, the amplifier has a frequency filter which enables the proper speakers to push the frequencies they were designed to drive.
Coaxial(coax) vs Component speakers(Components):
Coax speakers have the tweeters mounted with the midbass speaker. Some coax speakers have a filter built onto them so the signal is separated between the tweeter and midbass speaker. For example: the Infinity Reference 6832CF have a capacitor on the back, they are 6x8, and mount directly into the doors. They have a RMS handling of 60W. RMS is root mean square, which is the normal operating power of the speaker.
Since your stock head unit only puts out 10-15W, the head unit doesn't have the power to drive the new speakers.
You will notice it a little bit of difference which is purely due to the better quality of the speakers, but they won’t wow you.
Component speakers are the same as coax, but the tweeter is separated from the midbass and have to be mounted separately.
In our front doors there is already a spot for the tweeter, but it takes a bit more effort to get them wired.
Components also some with a little box called a Crossover. That is a frequency separator so only specific range of frequencies are sent to each, the tweeter or the midbass.
2-way,3-way, etc…: This just refers to the division of the input frequency had how many speakers are used to output those separations. 2way are Coax or Component speakers. The signal is divided by two, and output to a tweeter and midbass speaker. 3way, or triaxial, divide the signal by 3 and use a tweeter, midbass, and subwoofer. Usually the triaxial setups are more expensive and few vehicles are designed with these setups in mind for future expansion.
Since you don’t want booming bass, you can easily get great clarity and the needed volume so it feels like you are sitting in a concert hall, from a coax setup.
The bass that annoys you is 50Hz and below. That’s the rattle range.
So you only need speakers that have frequency handling above that. Even 80Hz and up would be adequate.
...continued in next post...
Last edited by MoDy150; 02-27-2014 at 01:32 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Brucem609 (02-27-2014)
02-27-2014, 01:07 PM
#7
Seņor Member
...continued from above...
Amplifiers: Amps provide more function than just increased volume. They enable the volume to be increased without distortion.
If you just changed speakers then the sound clarity would only be there when the volume is relatively low, which defeats the purpose unless you plan on putting your head right next to the speaker. Once you crank up the volume with the stock stereo it's going to hit its peak power quickly.
Passed that point the sound will distort and the clarity will disappear and you'll be very disappointed.
You don't need a large amp. Technology has made leaps and bounds lately in amplifiers which has enabled very small amplifiers to output a good amount of power.
You need to look into the D-class amplifiers like the Clarion XC1410 or the Rockford Fosgate PBR300x4. They are both very small but can push 4 separate channels at 50W and 75W RMS relatively. Since they are small, they can be mounted up in the dash or even zip-tie to the bottom of a seat.
#AWG: The 4AWG, 8AWG, 10AWG just refers to the wire gauge required by that specific amp to handle the amperage of that amplifier. Big amps that drive large systems or many, many power hungry speakers have larger gauge wire requirements. The smaller the number, the "4" in 4AWG, the bigger the diameter of the wire.
AWG stands for American Wire Gauge, it’s just the standard unit of measure of wire diameter here in 'Merica.
With a D-Class amp like I listed above you can get away with 8AWG or even 10AWG since it will only be driving coax speakers.
Here is the setup I'm currently installing in my truck. Keep in mind, I want clarity. I want it to sound like the band is sitting in the room. I want to hear the separation of the cymbols, from the rhythm guitar, from the bass, from the back ground vocals. Plus a super clear setup will enable more clear calls when talking through the Bluetooth.
Stereo : JVC KWAV61BT - it has a 6.1inch touchscreen with Bluetooth built in. I wanted rear cam expandability, built-in Bluetooth so I can call hands-free.
Amp : Clarion XC1410 - it's a 4 channel which can drive 50W per channel when outputting to all 4 channels, it's super small (2.8in x 7in x 1.4in). I'll be mounting it behind the stereo in that enormous space under the top dash tray. It has all the wires pig-tailed into it with a 30A fuse on the power wire. Only need a 10AWG
running to the battery. Since it's a smaller gauge I can use an existing hole in the firewall (no drilling).
Speakers : Infinity Reference 6832CF (x4). Replacing all 4 door speakers with these. They have a handling frequency range of 49Hz - 21kHz and an RMS of 60W. So the amp, with a RMS of 50W won't be able to overdrive the speakers. There will be very little chance of "popping" the speakers.
The other things I bought to make my install smoother were the stock speaker wire connectors ( ), wiring harness from Metra, dash kit from Metra (you won't need since you're not changing stereo), and an Amp wiring kit which has the needed RCA cables and power/ground cable to connect the amp to the battery.
My only suggestion would be to replace all four of your speakers. It's relatively cheap and will make a difference in the sound. I understand you currently leave them off. But producing sound from all four corners, in all the proper frequency ranges, will actually make it seem like the sound is right in front of you.
Good luck!
-Jamie
Amplifiers: Amps provide more function than just increased volume. They enable the volume to be increased without distortion.
If you just changed speakers then the sound clarity would only be there when the volume is relatively low, which defeats the purpose unless you plan on putting your head right next to the speaker. Once you crank up the volume with the stock stereo it's going to hit its peak power quickly.
Passed that point the sound will distort and the clarity will disappear and you'll be very disappointed.
You don't need a large amp. Technology has made leaps and bounds lately in amplifiers which has enabled very small amplifiers to output a good amount of power.
You need to look into the D-class amplifiers like the Clarion XC1410 or the Rockford Fosgate PBR300x4. They are both very small but can push 4 separate channels at 50W and 75W RMS relatively. Since they are small, they can be mounted up in the dash or even zip-tie to the bottom of a seat.
#AWG: The 4AWG, 8AWG, 10AWG just refers to the wire gauge required by that specific amp to handle the amperage of that amplifier. Big amps that drive large systems or many, many power hungry speakers have larger gauge wire requirements. The smaller the number, the "4" in 4AWG, the bigger the diameter of the wire.
AWG stands for American Wire Gauge, it’s just the standard unit of measure of wire diameter here in 'Merica.
With a D-Class amp like I listed above you can get away with 8AWG or even 10AWG since it will only be driving coax speakers.
Here is the setup I'm currently installing in my truck. Keep in mind, I want clarity. I want it to sound like the band is sitting in the room. I want to hear the separation of the cymbols, from the rhythm guitar, from the bass, from the back ground vocals. Plus a super clear setup will enable more clear calls when talking through the Bluetooth.
Stereo : JVC KWAV61BT - it has a 6.1inch touchscreen with Bluetooth built in. I wanted rear cam expandability, built-in Bluetooth so I can call hands-free.
Amp : Clarion XC1410 - it's a 4 channel which can drive 50W per channel when outputting to all 4 channels, it's super small (2.8in x 7in x 1.4in). I'll be mounting it behind the stereo in that enormous space under the top dash tray. It has all the wires pig-tailed into it with a 30A fuse on the power wire. Only need a 10AWG
running to the battery. Since it's a smaller gauge I can use an existing hole in the firewall (no drilling).
Speakers : Infinity Reference 6832CF (x4). Replacing all 4 door speakers with these. They have a handling frequency range of 49Hz - 21kHz and an RMS of 60W. So the amp, with a RMS of 50W won't be able to overdrive the speakers. There will be very little chance of "popping" the speakers.
The other things I bought to make my install smoother were the stock speaker wire connectors ( ), wiring harness from Metra, dash kit from Metra (you won't need since you're not changing stereo), and an Amp wiring kit which has the needed RCA cables and power/ground cable to connect the amp to the battery.
My only suggestion would be to replace all four of your speakers. It's relatively cheap and will make a difference in the sound. I understand you currently leave them off. But producing sound from all four corners, in all the proper frequency ranges, will actually make it seem like the sound is right in front of you.
Good luck!
-Jamie
Last edited by MoDy150; 02-27-2014 at 10:14 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Brucem609 (02-27-2014)
Trending Topics
02-27-2014, 08:59 PM
#9
Master Member
Thread Starter
Mody150, thanks so much for taking the time to write up such a wonderful helpful post on all my questions. I will be heading over to my local stereo installer tomorrow to,speak with him about my install.
Since I can't go with my original choice of speakers I guess I will go with the Polk audio db571. (Ok I guess I am a little biased to Polk)
Ok I got it, change all 4 of them to start.
I like the idea of an amp in the area right behind the head unit. I am buying that!
Should I get a amp wiring install kit? Is that helpful for my installer?
I cant say thank you enough, my tinnitus is absolutely horrible. I have hearing loss in the upper/high end. The wife doesn't believe it, thinks it is selective hearing. (It used to be)
Love my music, but it's so hard to hear with the ringing constantly going on in my head
MoDy150 you are the man!
Somebody should stickey that post ITS AWESOME
Since I can't go with my original choice of speakers I guess I will go with the Polk audio db571. (Ok I guess I am a little biased to Polk)
Ok I got it, change all 4 of them to start.
I like the idea of an amp in the area right behind the head unit. I am buying that!
Should I get a amp wiring install kit? Is that helpful for my installer?
I cant say thank you enough, my tinnitus is absolutely horrible. I have hearing loss in the upper/high end. The wife doesn't believe it, thinks it is selective hearing. (It used to be)
Love my music, but it's so hard to hear with the ringing constantly going on in my head
MoDy150 you are the man!
Somebody should stickey that post ITS AWESOME
02-27-2014, 10:02 PM
#10
Seņor Member
Mody150, thanks so much for taking the time to write up such a wonderful helpful post on all my questions. I will be heading over to my local stereo installer tomorrow to,speak with him about my install.
Since I can't go with my original choice of speakers I guess I will go with the Polk audio db571. (Ok I guess I am a little biased to Polk)
Ok I got it, change all 4 of them to start.
I like the idea of an amp in the area right behind the head unit. I am buying that!
Should I get a amp wiring install kit? Is that helpful for my installer?
I cant say thank you enough, my tinnitus is absolutely horrible. I have hearing loss in the upper/high end. The wife doesn't believe it, thinks it is selective hearing. (It used to be)
Love my music, but it's so hard to hear with the ringing constantly going on in my head
MoDy150 you are the man!
Somebody should stickey that post ITS AWESOME
Since I can't go with my original choice of speakers I guess I will go with the Polk audio db571. (Ok I guess I am a little biased to Polk)
Ok I got it, change all 4 of them to start.
I like the idea of an amp in the area right behind the head unit. I am buying that!
Should I get a amp wiring install kit? Is that helpful for my installer?
I cant say thank you enough, my tinnitus is absolutely horrible. I have hearing loss in the upper/high end. The wife doesn't believe it, thinks it is selective hearing. (It used to be)
Love my music, but it's so hard to hear with the ringing constantly going on in my head
MoDy150 you are the man!
Somebody should stickey that post ITS AWESOME
Good luck! I'll be finishing up my install this weekend.
-Jamie
