csmith72

After leaching through threads here for ideas I have decided to go ahead and upgrade my audio system in my screw. it is just a XLT without premium sound so sounds quite bad above 20 on the dial. Rather than hijack others threads for my probably endless questions I'm starting a new thread.

For not I am going with the following
1. 4-channel DSP (Dayton DSP-408)
2. 1x 4-channel and 1x 1-channel amp or 1x 5-channel amp or 1x 4-channel and powered sub's. amps I am currently looking at but not set on are:
a. B52CarAudio RC-1404 (1400W) 4-Channels 2 to 4 Ohm Car Amplifier
b. Rockville RXA-F2 2400 Watt Peak / 1200w RMS 4 Channel Amplifier Car Stereo Amp
c. BOSS AUDIO R2504 1000W 4 Channel Car Amplifier Power+Remote+8Ga Amp Install Kit
d. Rockford Fosgate Prime 1,200-Watt Class-D 1-Channel Amplifier
e. Rockford Fosgate R500X1D Prime 1-Channel Class D Amplifier

3. coaxial 6x9 and 6.5 for the doors. (may go to component in future, but for now coaxial.)
4. sound material to coat rear wall, floor, and some around speaker areas on doors.
5. for-11CK (although would be nice to line level from head unit.... oh well)
6. Pillar tweeters, not yet decided on what to get, also have not decided if i will add 2x tweeters to the rear (coaxial install sound results will answer this for me as well as do I go component or not)
7. SUB: either Rockville RW10CA 10" or kicker hideaway or Kicker TCWRT672

GOAL(s):
a. cleaner and louder than stock without power consumption requiring battery and or alternator upgrades. I am not looking to win sound competition, just want loud and clear with volume all the way up and have some real base.
b. I also want everything looking stock, including wire connections at the door.
c. I prefer not to cut away anything to make something fit although if I must for SUB sound quality, I will.
d. remote base ****.... not a must, but making sure is at least an option on whatever SUB setup I use.
e. Do NOT use space under rear seat for SUB enclosures. do NOT buy a $1200 OEM style SUB with lesser sound quality than I think I can get with SUB options I am looking at

COST: not trying to cheap out on everything, but also do not need to go all out $$$ wise.

POWER: I will end up with 90-100 watts RMS at the doors and about 150 watts RMS at the sub. if I had to guess maybe stock head unit pushes 20 watts RMS if it is lucky, but I doubt it is even that high.

Depending on what source you read your RMS match for speaker and amp is speaker RMS x.5 to 1.5 since I am starting out with okay quality but fairly inexpensive coaxial's, i will use 1.5 but make sure not to even get close to peak. If they fry, oh well i will lower number before replacing or moving to component.

1st question: has anyone had an opportunity to compare sound quality of something like the Rockville RW10CA 10" or kicker hideaway to thin enclosures like the kicker 6.5 TCWRT672 looking at specs they seem close but nothing compares to actually hearing them!

2nd question: what kind of space do we have under consoles on the f150's that have a full console? mounting equipment is great on back wall for accessibility but to completely hide it would be nice to use any space under there if there exists enough. (on one of my old cars I actually removed quarter panel trim and mounted the amp in the quarter panel, worked quite well but not accessible to adjust or replace). I should also mention this XLT is not equipped with dual zone HVAC

3rd question: I am still undecided on which direction I am going on amps. I don't need any $800+ amps, and also don't want to modify my power/charging system. Anyone familiar with the models above and or have better suggestions for powering 90-100RMS at the doors and 150RMS sub? something power efficient great sound quality and that packs a punch but not a complete drain on a wallet.

I'm sure I will have other questions but let's start here.

Thanks in advance.

planetix

Pretty straightforward. For wiring, for-11CK at the HU, speedwire to the Dayton. You only need the front channels, which are full range. Will sound great, you don't need to splice any cables either.

I'd strongly recommend components for the front, particularly if you are getting the Dayton. You can find some nice ones, price wise, I think the Kappas are recommended for smaller budgets (not super cheap, just not pricey) though I am certain you will get dozens of opinions on this. I'd recommend going 6.5 for the front doors, you'll find a lot more, and better, options and adapters are cheap (or you can make your own). You lose nothing SQ-wise.

In theory you could save more and leave the stock rears in place, they are 4ohm 75w I think (could be wrong, I am used to the B&O Play). For rear fill and with a DSP, doubt you will notice unless you go higher end/amp the hell of of everything and some folks will tell you not even then.

Not a huge fan of your 4-channel amp picks...you're going to get what you pay for with those.

What's your max budget in $? That will help guide picks others and myself will make.

csmith72

Im not liking amp picks either which is why i have not pulled the trigger. they are a result of attempting to match speaker RMS to AMP and the number of channels I will need. Speaking of which I have not completely decided on speakers either, so those RMS numbers are definitely subject to change and I am open to suggestion.

I have found bundles as well where you get 2x 6x9 coaxials, 2x component (with tweets and crossover, and the amp. vendors varied but some didn't look too bad, others want nothing to do with.
I am just not so sure about speaker/amp/vendor matching on the bundles and may prefer to just pick what is best instead of what is bundled. they ranged from 350 to over 900 depending on vendor/power/specs

for 6.5 components, I like the focal.

May budget is 0 if wife knows what I am doing, if she does not know.... then much higher! LOL

Seriously though I would like to keep AMP budget under 300 (regardless if I go 1x 4-channel and 1x 1-channel or just a single 5-channel) some wiggle room though

nineball

some random ramblings in response to some of your questions and concerns...

for ease of installation i would suggest getting a 5 channel amp and one that has more than 150rms to the sub. that would enable you to power all 4 coax and your sub, then later down the road you could change it to an active front stage, ditch the rears (not needed) and still power everything with the same amp. i am a big fan of the alpine PDX series, so the PDXv9 (100x4 + 500x1) would be the one to look at. a more wallet-friendly solution may be the NVX VAD11005 (80x4 + 350x1). i have personally never used any NXV product but it has had some positive reviews on here. the NVX is a slightly larger amp.

i have never heard an all-in-one thin sub solution like you are thinking about that ha been worth the cost. their output is always on the low side and for (most likely) less money you could buy a sub and a box that would outperform it, unless you choose one of the cheap, low end versions of the all-in-one. take a look at the size of the enclosures people have built/bought and posted about on here, then look at the all-in-one versions. there is almost no airspace inside, and sure they can design things (to a degree) to compensate but they will never be on par as far as i am concerned.

if you are going with coax you will not need additional tweeters. they already have them built in. lots of people have posted on here about that topic and almost everyone agrees that one tweet per side is all that is needed.

not so sure about the 1.5 times RMS rating. generally you want them to be close with the amp being on the slightly larger side. also keep in mind the advertised power ratings are the top of the spectrum, so even with an amp that does 100rms per channel you won't be using all of that on a regular basis. the power curve as you gain volume is not linear. for example let's say the volume goes from 1 to 20. at 10 it will not be half the volume of 20, it will be less than that.


the b&o may be but the stock system is no where near that the headunit puts out about 12-14rms per channel. not sure what the speakers are rated for but most stock speakers can't handle much over 20-40rms.

csmith72

I agree, the huge sub boxes make a world of difference, I just do not want to commit floor space to one. This is why I was looking at smaller enclosures that will fit behind the seat with minimal mod and still allow seats to fold and latch. Then I ran across those all-on-one mini things, but have never witnesses how they perform so was questioning if anyone has tried them and compared to small enclosures that fit behind the seat. Neither will compare to larger enclosures facing down below the seat or even larger ones.... I want some thump... much more than stock, which should not be hard to do considering stock has none, but not really needing BOOM. I think the reason I was looking at lower RMS on SUB is the size of SUB's im looking at sone handle higher RMS amps are pushing. Most are RMS of 150 or less.

I am open to suggestion on SUB but want to limit it to enclosures I can keep behind my seat. That should add some thump understandably nothing even close to larger under seat enclosures. I guess I may have to find local dealers near me that are willing to demonstrate sound of each style.

I found mixed info on how to match. for example if speakers are 60RMS one guide said .5 so I would want an AMP that will push 90RMS to that speaker, or if 1.5 then AMP pushes 150RMS to the speaker. I am still not completely figured out what to go for, only that I don't want it so powerful I need to add larger battery and higher capacity alternator. No need to that much sound fort me at least. Last few vehicles I had were stock with premium sound which although lacking badly in power was at least much better sound quality than non-premium, so I lived whit it. The non-premium XLT system lacks in power and sound quality....

Gotta love the fact that there is nearly a 200$ price difference on the PDXv9 between amazon and crutchfield....

planetix

I don't personally find a well built under-rear-seat box to be a burden. How often do you raise the rear seats to access all the floor space now, and how do you use that space?

For example, if I have stuff for the back that I'd rather not put on my leather seats I just raise them and put them on top of the sub box, which has a more rugged cover. On the rare occasions I need the space, it's fairly easy to move out of the way.

What I'm getting at is make sure you think it through. Don't sacrifice sub capability (not to mention much more flexible and cost effective options) 100% of the time if you only need the extra floor space 10% of the time. There are some decent hideaways (don't buy an all in one though) but even the good ones won't be as good as a comparable quality underseat.

Bigger isn't just about about "boom" either. A larger driver(s) with more space to work with will sound better all the way across the spectrum. Not just for hitting higher SPL.

You're right, I dug out the pictures I took of mine when I replaced them and they are 25rms.

That said with a decent DSP like the Dayton and a matched amp even the rear stocks can be blended well enough to serve as fill, I think. I replaced mine but thinking about the budget here. I'd definitely recommend putting more in to the amps/fronts over rear speakers, even cheap ones.

csmith72

The more I am reading into behind the seat options as well as the all-in-one combos, the more I am leaning towards at least an easily removable under rear seat enclosure.

I am also leaning more toward a component set for the front now. Stock are 6x9 correct?

As far as how often do I use that space..... quite often. currently I have secure storage below the seat. I know I can have it in the bed as well but get out of your truck, put your valuables, or whatever it is you want to secure in secure storage in the bed of truck, now anyone within sight of the truck saw you did just that and knows it is there... Anyway, I think I can make use of the space behind the seats to fabricate a secure store and just use the space below the seat for a SUB.

Once I pull out the rear speakers again to replace them I will post pics, i would be surprised if they are even 25RMS, I can see the front door speakers maybe being 25, but the rear doors FORD really cheaped out on.

Agreed on the all-in ones though, they are pricey and tiny, i don't believe they pack the punch the vendors are advertising. if they did i'd be amazed but I had to ask.

planetix

Front are 6x9 but you can quite easily fit 6.5 with a cheap adapter, and you'll have a lot more options particularly for component sets.

Sound wise I would be skeptical of anyone who could tell the difference even though the 6x9 have a slightly bigger surface.

csmith72

yeah, i notices much more options if i go 6.5 on the front. i am searching for adapter brackets now for 17 screw most i find for ford adapt up to a 6.5 to a 6x8 hole which is why I asked.

planetix

If you have the center console there are several secure lockbox options for it which can hold a surprising amount of stuff, if one of those fits your needs. Also you don't necessarily need to get a sub box that goes the entire length, there are options for just the 60% side, and you can buy secure underseat boxes for the other 40% passenger side. Lots of ways to solve this problem, unless you are storing long guns or something.