Does this make sense to anyone?
 

My owner’s guide says don’t change rear differential fluid unless there’s a leak or the axle has been submerged in water. It states it has synthetic oil that doesn’t need maintenance. This just doesn’t make sense to me for a pickup made to haul and tow. I’m going to change it anyway because I bought it used and don’t know what’s happened to it in the past. Is this odd to anyone else that Ford would recommend never to change that fluid? Metal against metal is the same whether in engine, transmission, etc. and those fluids must be changed, right?

If I read my manual correctly, it says don't service the transmission until 150,000 miles. Dealer says 60,000

I'm not sure what my manual says about transmission but 150k seems a little long, I'd go with the dealer. I'm wondering though about never changing the rear differential, just doesn't seem logical.

Almost all vehicles are recommending that now. In addition to my F-150 I have a Tacoma with 172,000 miles on it. The AT fluid and coolant has never been changed. Toyota does not recommend ever changing the AT fluid. There isn't even a dipstick to check it. The transfer case and both axles were not changed until about 5,000 miles ago and probably didn't need it then.

WOW, that just bothers me. I trust and know that the manufacturers know what they are doing, it just goes against years of what I've known. The technology must be great or they're expecting people to only keep a vehicle 250k. My dad drove a Ford pickup for over 40 years, put 2 new engines in it. I just can't grasp my mind around having a vehicle with 500k+ and not changing some of the fluids. I just need to let the idea soak in. Thanks for the info.

Consider that the original fluid will get you through the warranty period....

Yea, that may be the thinking of the manufacturers. Maybe I don't trust them as much as I thought. With all our technology today, we still only get less than 20 mpg on many trucks, I just don't buy that.

Yep. They refer to these fluids as "lifetime". To me, that means they can fail at anytime, which is their "lifetime".

I also think it states in the owners manual that these recommended fluid changes are for normal driving. If you tow or haul with the truck, it falls under a different catagory (heavy duty), and a different change interval is suggested.

In any event, I'd say its good to use old school maintenance on these items if you plan to hold onto the truck for a longer period of time. If you trade it in every 3 to 4 years, then it becomes someone else's concern.

On vehicles that have drain plugs ( easy to replace ) there is no good reason NOT to replace fluids. Why risk a multi thousand dollar machine on an inexpensive fluid change?

Minus the drain plug or if its more labor intensive its still worth the effort especially if you keep your vehicle.

It's always a battle between the bean counters, salesmen, and engineers.


Bean counters will say that most of their customers will change vehicles every few years, so why make something that will last longer than that? Hence your 3 year/36000 mile warranty.
Salesmen want to say that fluid changes and other maintenance items are "lifetime" so no need to change it. Makes for a great sales pitch.
Engineers will say change your fluids on a regular basis and use high quality products to ensure the best possible performance.


Get those guys together and you'll get a truck with no fluid changes required sold to a customer that will trade in the vehicle after 3 or 4 years.

In the case of automatic transmission fluid, it's designed to operate at around 170 degrees (according to a recent site that member MGD posted). It went on to say that for every 20 degrees above that, it shortens the life span of the fluid. If you tow on hilly terrain, you will see temps climb into the 200 range.

If you are going to change your Fluids anyway it doesn't matter how many miles you have on it.
I change my oil & rotate the Tires at the same time every three months, regardless of mile driven.
In the Ford Manual it said every 7500 miles.
After I purchased my New F150 it doesn't belong to Ford anymore. It belongs to me.

That's the proper attitude.....:thumbup:

So if yours says change after submersion then mine that is substanitally older probably needs it too

If you submerge the rear axle there is possibility it will now be contaminated with dirty water.
If the vent pipes and hoses are still intact you may be OK. Just depends on how deep you went.
If not, you need to either check and or replace the the lubricant as it is for the rear end and the rear wheel bearings.

is that this

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.f15...422bdb051f.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.f15...a252c40437.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.f15...9ec2eab9a7.jpg

Bucko - As far as my transmission I believe I have the oil cooled tranny. I'm guessing that helps with temp, just not sure.

This morning I took pickup to dealer to flush the tranny. 60k is the manual recommendation, it's got 100k. I assumed they would drop the pan, clean the magnet, maybe replace filter, then put it back on and flush everything torgue and trans. They don't open the pan, what bothered me was they flushed it with all those good detergents yet the magnet still has metal fillings on it. Would this bother anyone else? I realize theoretically the magnet should hold them. Dealer said he checked the rear differential and said it was dirty, I have no reason not to believe him. I may change that myself. The tranny flush was total $195, any significant experience from anyone?

Synthetic oil can take a substantial amount of abuse before it breaks down, so for the rear end, as long as it is kept dry inside, it is pretty much sealed up other than the vent on top, so going a long time on original fluid is OK.

Transmission though, I find that hard to believe it can last that long. I know the fluids are much better today than they ever were, but 150K, That I just can't believe. Mine is always at 204* whether I am dead heading or towing. I will change mine out around 50K, that way if changing fluid causes something to give out( those who have had it happen know what I mean), it would still be under the powertrain warranty.

It would bother me, as I'd want the tranny's filter changed as well, and the only way to do that is to drop the pan.

Modern "normal" vehicles are engineered to go about 12-14 years or about 130-150k miles. You exceed either of those, or work it hard- like towing, and you will need to spend more money on maintenance. These trucks are basically built to run around empty(like hauling kids to soccer practice) or maybe pulling a light utility trailer or bass boat. every single thing written about these or any other trucks says: you work it hard and you will spend more to keep it running. The fact that they don't have dipsticks, or printed procedures for changing fluid is because they fully expect you to bring it to them for ALL repairs and maintenance. My personal answer to this is to buy 'em new, beat the living crap out of it, and trade it off before it runs out of initial warranty. In the last twenty years, I haven't spent a "repair"dime on anything other than wipers and filters. The next owner gets a real P.O.S., but I get by without spending a dime- other than depreciation.

I have run into this myself. I called two dealers. #1 said they use a flush machine, they don't drop the pan. That's interesting because these transmissions have thermal bypass valves and you can't flush them like transmissions from earlier years. #2 said they've never even had a request for a pan/filter drop, and they can't even find a part number for a trans. filter for these trucks. :eek:

Total and complete incompetence and no understanding of their own product. It's pathetic.

So yes, the best thing to do is drop the pan yourself or hire an independent shop to do it, clean the pan and magnet, replace the filter, and fill with Mercon LV to the proper level using the little dipstick on the passenger side front. It's a crappy job, but I'm going to do it myself I think and get it done right.

I'd listen to a Vaccuum Salesman tell me what to do on my vehicle before a Car Salesman.

Honestly, the cost of the fluid changes just don't justify the benefits anymore. It is nothing to get 300,000 miles out of a transmission and NEVER have it serviced. Or you could pay $100-$200 every 30,000-50,000 miles and get 350,000 miles before you need to replace it. The money you spent on servicing just doesn't add that much to the life of the components. You'd spend 1/2 the cost of a new transmission just to get a few more miles out of it.

I don't believe that applies to engine oil. But most folks still change oil about twice as often as they really need to.

I have run into this myself. I called two dealers. #1 said they use a flush machine, they don't drop the pan. That's interesting because these transmissions have thermal bypass valves and you can't flush them like transmissions from earlier years. #2 said they've never even had a request for a pan/filter drop, and they can't even find a part number for a trans. filter for these trucks.

Total and complete incompetence and no understanding of their own product. It's pathetic.

So yes, the best thing to do is drop the pan yourself or hire an independent shop to do it, clean the pan and magnet, replace the filter, and fill with Mercon LV to the proper level using the little dipstick on the passenger side front. It's a crappy job, but I'm going to do it myself I think and get it done right.

I told him when I dropped it off I wanted a new filter, he gave me the line (which may be true) we use detergents that completely clean it. 30-40k I'm going to drop pan, replace filter and clean. I do believe the synthetic fluids today are good for long periods. It's shocking what you said your experience was.

I partially agree, the fluids are very good today. Years ago when everyone had their oil changed at 3k miles dad told me something. He was a college professor and another professor that taught auto mechanics and kept up with new research said a test was done and after, I don't remember 100k or 200k, one car had oil changed every 3k and the other every 9k. After 200k when they tore the engine apart there was NO DIFFERENCE in the wear between the cars. This was like 25 years ago. These independent manufacturers have to be making long lasting good quality fluids with the technology that's out there.

You must drive a lot or like wasting money!

on these transmissions im more concerned with getting metal particles out. Cleaning the magnet and replacing the filter is the real reason to service the trans. i cant fathom driving a pickup truck for 300k and never doing that.

Think about this...what is a filters job? It's to catch particulates and gunk, right? If you flush the trans with a machine, are you not just causing the filter to get plugged up faster? Hence, all the stories we've heard about transmission failures following flush service at high mileage.

There is a $20 replaceable filter there because it needs to be replaced. There's a magnet there to aid the filter. It needs to be cleaned. The transmission fluid doesn't change from red to brown for no reason..It does that because it's full of contaminates.

Can a transmission possibly last a long time being neglected? Yes. Will it last even longer if serviced properly? Yes.

^Agreed, My father always changed his oil filter every 3 months and top off of oil, complete drain of oil and filter every 6 months, spring and fall. The transmission fluid and filter was changed every 5 years along with the differential drained and refiled. He never had any of these components fail engine, transmission, or rear-end (Including axial bearings) and some of his vehicles had 300,000+ miles on them. That is not to say he did not rebuild engines but the most he ever went was .020 over during the rebuild. So yes you take care of your vehicle and it will be reliable.

Oils are a lot better than they were but engines also make lots more HP and Torque. My old Dodge 318 made 250HP. My Ford 305 makes 365HP.

I change my oil about twice a year. I don't drive my truck every day, so my yearly mileage is give or take 10k mikes a year. I run a quality blend (either motor craft or Mobil one)), and have never had an issue. Followed the same pattern on two previous vehicles, other than running royal purple full synthetic in my cobra. Synthetic or synthetic blend oil doesn't break down isn't caused by time. It's caused by heat, which is caused by mileage. So I would pay more attention to mileage than ago, tho I wouldn't go much over 6mos regardless of miles. On a diff note, my two work vehicles have had their oil changed every 7-10k miles, NEVER had the tranny serviced snd both have lasted to nearly 200k miles before the company replaced them, so who know...

This is what the engineers tell the dealer tech's.


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...910/0FoAI9.jpg

The only thing that could be subjective is the definition of "Severe duty"

On a side note, we have trucks in our fleet pushing 350,000 miles on the original differential oil with no issues.
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Isn't the severe duty defined in the owners manual?

Is the same transmission used in the SD (gas only)?

Doesn't that go against the Ford recommendation...

Keep in mind that using fluid change intervals that appear to indicate low maintenance can also be a sales tactic.

Like someone said, once you purchase the truck, it's yours. The only thing Ford cares about is getting through the warranty period.

I guess I have a decent dealer. When I get transmission service I tell them I don't want the flush, I want the filter replaced. They just say OK and do it, I go about every 50k but I tow a lot, I would probably go more if it was a grocery getter.

I really don't know. Maybe he was just talking out his rear. I could tell he was just saying anything to convince me that what they were going to do was great for the truck. It's been a couple weeks and no problems, it runs & shifts great. Hope it holds up.