Anyone ever do Automotive Painting DIY?
12-09-2013, 11:19 PM
#12
In a nutshell... the flatter the paint the more its shows scratches and even finer scratches are more visible. Take a piece of paper and draw a line ^^^^^^^^^^^^ any line with highs and lows simulating orange peel texture. Now draw a line across the top of the peaks of the first line you drew. That second line simulates a scratch. The "scratch" on orange peel on light scratches just hits the top off the orange peel not the lows of the orange peel thus making the scratch far less noticeable than if there were NO ORANGE PEEL on the paint and the paint were completely flat =================== If the paint were completely flat a scratch or scuff would make contact with the surface from start to finish making it a more noticeable scratch or scuff. NOW... that being said... the paint is not any harder with the orange peel rather the profile of the paint "orange peel" in effect protects a % of its surface from scratches making it that much more durable to light scratches and scuffs. it also allows light imperfections easier to be polished out.
Me being a Ford fan I hate to admit this but domestically GM was the first to use this technique when they started intentionally increasing the "orange peel" on the tail gates of their pick ups to increase the durability or as I just explained increase the life span and resistance to scratches and scuffs.
Moving forward paints have become better and the amount of orange peel has been minimized to a more eye appealing level to where it is not necessarily noticed on newer vehicles, but there was a time where it was a very important part of a factory paint job.
Now as a painter the goal is to not only match the color, metallic, execute a flawless color blend but to match the factory clear coat orange peel as to make any repair as invisible as possible. Those of us that think along those terms are very successful at what we do.
Me being a Ford fan I hate to admit this but domestically GM was the first to use this technique when they started intentionally increasing the "orange peel" on the tail gates of their pick ups to increase the durability or as I just explained increase the life span and resistance to scratches and scuffs.
Moving forward paints have become better and the amount of orange peel has been minimized to a more eye appealing level to where it is not necessarily noticed on newer vehicles, but there was a time where it was a very important part of a factory paint job.
Now as a painter the goal is to not only match the color, metallic, execute a flawless color blend but to match the factory clear coat orange peel as to make any repair as invisible as possible. Those of us that think along those terms are very successful at what we do.
The following 2 users liked this post by Indyhead:
93Cobra#2771 (12-10-2013),
goneMINIcrazy (12-11-2013)
12-10-2013, 12:12 AM
#13
In a nutshell... the flatter the paint the more its shows scratches and even finer scratches are more visible. Take a piece of paper and draw a line ^^^^^^^^^^^^ any line with highs and lows simulating orange peel texture. Now draw a line across the top of the peaks of the first line you drew. That second line simulates a scratch. The "scratch" on orange peel on light scratches just hits the top off the orange peel not the lows of the orange peel thus making the scratch far less noticeable than if there were NO ORANGE PEEL on the paint and the paint were completely flat =================== If the paint were completely flat a scratch or scuff would make contact with the surface from start to finish making it a more noticeable scratch or scuff. NOW... that being said... the paint is not any harder with the orange peel rather the profile of the paint "orange peel" in effect protects a % of its surface from scratches making it that much more durable to light scratches and scuffs. it also allows light imperfections easier to be polished out.
Me being a Ford fan I hate to admit this but domestically GM was the first to use this technique when they started intentionally increasing the "orange peel" on the tail gates of their pick ups to increase the durability or as I just explained increase the life span and resistance to scratches and scuffs.
Moving forward paints have become better and the amount of orange peel has been minimized to a more eye appealing level to where it is not necessarily noticed on newer vehicles, but there was a time where it was a very important part of a factory paint job.
Now as a painter the goal is to not only match the color, metallic, execute a flawless color blend but to match the factory clear coat orange peel as to make any repair as invisible as possible. Those of us that think along those terms are very successful at what we do.
Me being a Ford fan I hate to admit this but domestically GM was the first to use this technique when they started intentionally increasing the "orange peel" on the tail gates of their pick ups to increase the durability or as I just explained increase the life span and resistance to scratches and scuffs.
Moving forward paints have become better and the amount of orange peel has been minimized to a more eye appealing level to where it is not necessarily noticed on newer vehicles, but there was a time where it was a very important part of a factory paint job.
Now as a painter the goal is to not only match the color, metallic, execute a flawless color blend but to match the factory clear coat orange peel as to make any repair as invisible as possible. Those of us that think along those terms are very successful at what we do.
12-10-2013, 12:43 AM
#14
Martin
I think you know the answer to your own question. If it's old diy paint is fine, if its a brand new truck or semi new have a friend slap you with a dipstick for even thinking of a garage paint job.
12-10-2013, 12:59 AM
#15
Depends... how old is the finish on the vehicle, what color, what level are you after. When I hear mirror finish.... in my world that means wets and flat (800,1000,2000,3000) and buff to a show winning shine which means an absolute flat flat surface. This requires extra clear coat in the paint process and we do it to every show vehicle we do. This yields the best possible shine but obviously not realistic for daily use unless you have cash to burn and are painfully **** about your trucks finish.
That being said for a factory finish you can do some flat sanding (factory clear is VERY thin) using the 3M Trizac system if you want to spend the time. For a daily driver just use the 3000 grit (wet DA) on the flat areas only and use the 3M Trizac polish system from there. You can check with some master detailers on here... there are many different methods and to call one the best is hard to do. I have my preferences. Some prefer to spend high dollar on sealers and wax... some like myself, use less expensive products like Meguiars but I polish and wax more than the average. ( http://www.autogeek.net/allmepr.html ) I also use these same products on all our show stuff too.
That being said for a factory finish you can do some flat sanding (factory clear is VERY thin) using the 3M Trizac system if you want to spend the time. For a daily driver just use the 3000 grit (wet DA) on the flat areas only and use the 3M Trizac polish system from there. You can check with some master detailers on here... there are many different methods and to call one the best is hard to do. I have my preferences. Some prefer to spend high dollar on sealers and wax... some like myself, use less expensive products like Meguiars but I polish and wax more than the average. ( http://www.autogeek.net/allmepr.html ) I also use these same products on all our show stuff too.
Last edited by Indyhead; 12-10-2013 at 01:02 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Indyhead:
93Cobra#2771 (12-10-2013),
goneMINIcrazy (12-11-2013)
12-10-2013, 02:33 PM
#16
In a nutshell... the flatter the paint the more its shows scratches and even finer scratches are more visible. Take a piece of paper and draw a line ^^^^^^^^^^^^ any line with highs and lows simulating orange peel texture. Now draw a line across the top of the peaks of the first line you drew. That second line simulates a scratch. The "scratch" on orange peel on light scratches just hits the top off the orange peel not the lows of the orange peel thus making the scratch far less noticeable than if there were NO ORANGE PEEL on the paint and the paint were completely flat =================== If the paint were completely flat a scratch or scuff would make contact with the surface from start to finish making it a more noticeable scratch or scuff. NOW... that being said... the paint is not any harder with the orange peel rather the profile of the paint "orange peel" in effect protects a % of its surface from scratches making it that much more durable to light scratches and scuffs. it also allows light imperfections easier to be polished out. Me being a Ford fan I hate to admit this but domestically GM was the first to use this technique when they started intentionally increasing the "orange peel" on the tail gates of their pick ups to increase the durability or as I just explained increase the life span and resistance to scratches and scuffs. Moving forward paints have become better and the amount of orange peel has been minimized to a more eye appealing level to where it is not necessarily noticed on newer vehicles, but there was a time where it was a very important part of a factory paint job. Now as a painter the goal is to not only match the color, metallic, execute a flawless color blend but to match the factory clear coat orange peel as to make any repair as invisible as possible. Those of us that think along those terms are very successful at what we do.
12-10-2013, 06:14 PM
#17
Ok... I was just going to just read and enjoy the comments but I need to inject some of my own comments here.... 93COBRA said it right but allow me to elaborate............
#1. Its not easy. If it were easy everyone would be doing it and there would be no need for professionals. Trust me. I'm a professional and I've seen many many try to do it for a living with the proper equipment in the proper environment and just don't have what it takes.
#2. The correct equipment to spray todays materials (and have it look like anything) is NOT cheap! I have a gun specifically for primer, another set-up for sealer, another specifically set-up for base coat and a fourth specifically set-up for clear coat. You could use one gun (a quality spray gun - I use SATA) and swap fluid needle and air caps for specific product and set up for each. Petty time consuming when dealing with product that has VERY specific flash times and recoat windows
least not forget the fact you would be spraying in at best a makeshift garage slash converted paint area AKA FILTHY PAINT JOB
#3. You cant buy "just enough product" to paint what your talking about. You would be over purchasing on material and with the cost of material this is a idea killer alone. Not to mention you need to buy clean up material, specific items like strainers, correct mixing sticks thinner, rags, air mask, all the diff grit sand papers ect... the cost adds up really fast on a small project like this.
#4. The RIGHT product. Etch primer, sealer, basecoat, clear coat all that are sprayed over the right sanded surface (proper grit) correct flash times within the recommended recoat windows all at the right temperature. it all has to be right. Even if your lucky enough to get it to look half way decent... will it stay on after a year... 2? A shop will warranty it
AND being a novice it wont look nearly as nice if it was done right. My main point here is... It isn't easy... anyone who says it is has either done it for a living and considers this a small job or has never attempted a job like this at home in their own garage and has no clue what it takes to do a "NICE" job.
For what its worth MY SUGGESTION would be.. purchase your parts, find out how a shop would like them prepped, prep the parts, take them to a qualified body shop and have them spray the parts for you. THEN have somebody HELP you assemble the parts on your truck (use masking tape on all the edges) I've seen it many times where people beat up the edges trying to install new painted parts
All of this is just my professional opinion. I've seen a lot of money and a lot of time wasted on people thinking "I figured it was easy" and it generally cost more to fix after its been botched. I'm not saying its impossible..... just not likely to get a factory finish at home DIY style.
Almost forgot to mention.. yes orange peel is there for a reason. Its all about paint durability. I could explain if anyone would like me to but the factory does do it for a reason. There is a fine line between how much orange peel to actually have.
#1. Its not easy. If it were easy everyone would be doing it and there would be no need for professionals. Trust me. I'm a professional and I've seen many many try to do it for a living with the proper equipment in the proper environment and just don't have what it takes.
#2. The correct equipment to spray todays materials (and have it look like anything) is NOT cheap! I have a gun specifically for primer, another set-up for sealer, another specifically set-up for base coat and a fourth specifically set-up for clear coat. You could use one gun (a quality spray gun - I use SATA) and swap fluid needle and air caps for specific product and set up for each. Petty time consuming when dealing with product that has VERY specific flash times and recoat windows
least not forget the fact you would be spraying in at best a makeshift garage slash converted paint area AKA FILTHY PAINT JOB
#3. You cant buy "just enough product" to paint what your talking about. You would be over purchasing on material and with the cost of material this is a idea killer alone. Not to mention you need to buy clean up material, specific items like strainers, correct mixing sticks thinner, rags, air mask, all the diff grit sand papers ect... the cost adds up really fast on a small project like this.
#4. The RIGHT product. Etch primer, sealer, basecoat, clear coat all that are sprayed over the right sanded surface (proper grit) correct flash times within the recommended recoat windows all at the right temperature. it all has to be right. Even if your lucky enough to get it to look half way decent... will it stay on after a year... 2? A shop will warranty it
AND being a novice it wont look nearly as nice if it was done right. My main point here is... It isn't easy... anyone who says it is has either done it for a living and considers this a small job or has never attempted a job like this at home in their own garage and has no clue what it takes to do a "NICE" job.
For what its worth MY SUGGESTION would be.. purchase your parts, find out how a shop would like them prepped, prep the parts, take them to a qualified body shop and have them spray the parts for you. THEN have somebody HELP you assemble the parts on your truck (use masking tape on all the edges) I've seen it many times where people beat up the edges trying to install new painted parts
All of this is just my professional opinion. I've seen a lot of money and a lot of time wasted on people thinking "I figured it was easy" and it generally cost more to fix after its been botched. I'm not saying its impossible..... just not likely to get a factory finish at home DIY style.
Almost forgot to mention.. yes orange peel is there for a reason. Its all about paint durability. I could explain if anyone would like me to but the factory does do it for a reason. There is a fine line between how much orange peel to actually have.
Can you do it? Sure, lord knows i have.
Another thing to consider, assuming this is a beater truck you don't really care about, and are going to diy anyway. Do you have an air compressor that can handle the air consumption of a spray gun? If so, does it have an oil separator or a drying system? At home air compressors typically don't, and any water/oil in the lines will make a giant mess.
12-11-2013, 07:32 AM
#18
Member
Well Indy, I just learned a lot. Thanks!
12-11-2013, 10:19 AM
#19
About like Indyhead explained... Automotive painting takes quite a bit of experience. That is why there are votec courses on the subject. A good paint job that at all matches the factory color and quality takes some expensive paint products, experience, effort and clean painting area like a maintained paint booth. If you have all the right products it isn't super difficult to do. The experience and feel for the tools takes more than a week of practice to get down though.
Youtube can teach a guy how to adjust valves, but painting takes more than a video.For 4 or 5 years I worked wet sand/polish, cleanup, prep for paint, prep for primer, sealing, and worked up to color and clear spraying. I prepped, colored, and sprayed clear on few panels and they came out great. Color blending and laying clear down smooth is an art that takes some time to get down. Novice experience gets novice results.
If it was my vehicle, and I was on a budget I would buy the panels, the prep products, and find a decent shop to shoot the paint. Macco can do a decent job with properly prepped and cleaned body panels. The truck in your avatar is black, that should make it more simple to match color unless it is a metallic paint.
Youtube can teach a guy how to adjust valves, but painting takes more than a video.For 4 or 5 years I worked wet sand/polish, cleanup, prep for paint, prep for primer, sealing, and worked up to color and clear spraying. I prepped, colored, and sprayed clear on few panels and they came out great. Color blending and laying clear down smooth is an art that takes some time to get down. Novice experience gets novice results.
If it was my vehicle, and I was on a budget I would buy the panels, the prep products, and find a decent shop to shoot the paint. Macco can do a decent job with properly prepped and cleaned body panels. The truck in your avatar is black, that should make it more simple to match color unless it is a metallic paint.