4x4 with Open Differential
#11
I guess the owners manual is wrong then. It doesn't say anything about redistribution of power. Only decreasing power either through brake application or engine power. I've seen it first hand on my sons ford focus. He got it stuck in snow. The drive wheel was slipping the opposite wheel would not move at all and engine RPM fell to about 2500 as soon as the drive wheel slipped. He had to turn the traction control off to keep rpm up. At no time did the non driving wheel try to turn.
#12
Senior Member
Quick answer is the traction control brakes the spinning wheel until it is the wheel with ‘more’ traction and therefore power will flow to the wheel with ‘less’ traction (which was the original wheel that wasn’t spinning).
The system actually works surprisingly well, on gravel road from a dead stop you punch it and there will be about one foot of one-wheel spin then the system balances out and you have two equal spin marks.
I have had both fords LSD and open with elocker, I honestly was in disbelief that my elocker truck wasn’t lsd....they behave so similarly.
The system actually works surprisingly well, on gravel road from a dead stop you punch it and there will be about one foot of one-wheel spin then the system balances out and you have two equal spin marks.
I have had both fords LSD and open with elocker, I honestly was in disbelief that my elocker truck wasn’t lsd....they behave so similarly.
#13
Senior Member
I like to point out the situation when I still had my Escape front wheel drive. It had traction control, and it worked well. One time, I was out taking photographs and I pulled off the pavement to get some shots. The two right wheels sunk immediately into the soft mud and I figured I was not going to get out. I kept the left wheels on the pavement. When I started to accelerate out, the wheel on the right spun very little, but the wheel on the left, that was on dry pavement, pulled me right out. It acted very much like a good limited slip or locker.
#14
built ford tough
i have a yukon dura grip in my truck, so far so great, you can adjust the amount of clutch packs and add different weight springs for how aggressively it locks up
#15
Senior Member
I've owned 15 different 4X4's since the 1970's. Only one had a limited slip rear axle. Only 2, a 2007 Tacoma and my 2014 Ford have locking diffs. In 11 years I've never needed to lock the diff on the Tacoma. Used it once on the Ford and probably could have gotten out without it.
A locking or limited slip rear axle CAN be a disadvantage in snow and ice. I'd only use it to get moving then turn it off.
With an open diff power goes to BOTH wheels normally. During cornering, or when traction is really poor power only goes to the one wheel with the least traction. This is to prevent drive train damage. Locking or limited slip diffs are not as rugged and more likely to break under hard use. The locking and limited slip diffs MIGHT get you through some spots, but they might also just get you stuck worse.
If you're spinning one wheel applying the parking brake lightly will create enough resistance so that power is diverted to the other wheel. Traction control does the same thing via computer control and for ice/snow use is actually much better than locking or limited slip diff's.
Back in the 70's and 80's when I was young and dumb my friends and I went a lot of places with open diff's, mainly because that was by far more common. Given the option it is nice to have, but for normal use is not a huge deal. The guys who use it the most are the ones "playing" around off road trying to push the limits. With a little common sense and driving skills you can get into most any place you really need to go with open diff's.
And if it is really that important it can be added.
A locking or limited slip rear axle CAN be a disadvantage in snow and ice. I'd only use it to get moving then turn it off.
With an open diff power goes to BOTH wheels normally. During cornering, or when traction is really poor power only goes to the one wheel with the least traction. This is to prevent drive train damage. Locking or limited slip diffs are not as rugged and more likely to break under hard use. The locking and limited slip diffs MIGHT get you through some spots, but they might also just get you stuck worse.
If you're spinning one wheel applying the parking brake lightly will create enough resistance so that power is diverted to the other wheel. Traction control does the same thing via computer control and for ice/snow use is actually much better than locking or limited slip diff's.
Back in the 70's and 80's when I was young and dumb my friends and I went a lot of places with open diff's, mainly because that was by far more common. Given the option it is nice to have, but for normal use is not a huge deal. The guys who use it the most are the ones "playing" around off road trying to push the limits. With a little common sense and driving skills you can get into most any place you really need to go with open diff's.
And if it is really that important it can be added.
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#16
Senior Member
When I bought my 17 off the lot, it had a non locking rear end. I have since upgraded the rear carrier to a Eaton (Detroit) TrueTrac. It works great now, no more one wheel peels, but instead power to both wheels, especially when in slippery conditions.
Price I paid for the carrier (Black Friday Special) - $512
Carrier bearings and races - $125
Install - $300
Worth the price in my opinion. More expensive than the e-locker option, but since it didn't have it, this was my next best option.
Price I paid for the carrier (Black Friday Special) - $512
Carrier bearings and races - $125
Install - $300
Worth the price in my opinion. More expensive than the e-locker option, but since it didn't have it, this was my next best option.
#17
Senior Member
[QUOTE=marshallr;5601531]I've owned 15 different 4X4's since the 1970's. Only one had a limited slip rear axle. Only 2, a 2007 Tacoma and my 2014 Ford have locking diffs. In 11 years I've never needed to lock the diff on the Tacoma. Used it once on the Ford and probably could have gotten out without it.
A locking or limited slip rear axle CAN be a disadvantage in snow and ice. I'd only use it to get moving then turn it off.
With an open diff power goes to BOTH wheels normally. During cornering, or when traction is really poor power only goes to the one wheel with the least traction. This is to prevent drive train damage. Locking or limited slip diffs are not as rugged and more likely to break under hard use. The locking and limited slip diffs MIGHT get you through some spots, but they might also just get you stuck worse.
If you're spinning one wheel applying the parking brake lightly will create enough resistance so that power is diverted to the other wheel. Traction control does the same thing via computer control and for ice/snow use is actually much better than locking or limited slip diff's.
Back in the 70's and 80's when I was young and dumb my friends and I went a lot of places with open diff's, mainly because that was by far more common. Given the option it is nice to have, but for normal use is not a huge deal. The guys who use it the most are the ones "playing" around off road trying to push the limits. With a little common sense and driving skills you can get into most any place you really need to go with open diff's.
And if it is really that important it can be added.[/QUOT
Delete
A locking or limited slip rear axle CAN be a disadvantage in snow and ice. I'd only use it to get moving then turn it off.
With an open diff power goes to BOTH wheels normally. During cornering, or when traction is really poor power only goes to the one wheel with the least traction. This is to prevent drive train damage. Locking or limited slip diffs are not as rugged and more likely to break under hard use. The locking and limited slip diffs MIGHT get you through some spots, but they might also just get you stuck worse.
If you're spinning one wheel applying the parking brake lightly will create enough resistance so that power is diverted to the other wheel. Traction control does the same thing via computer control and for ice/snow use is actually much better than locking or limited slip diff's.
Back in the 70's and 80's when I was young and dumb my friends and I went a lot of places with open diff's, mainly because that was by far more common. Given the option it is nice to have, but for normal use is not a huge deal. The guys who use it the most are the ones "playing" around off road trying to push the limits. With a little common sense and driving skills you can get into most any place you really need to go with open diff's.
And if it is really that important it can be added.[/QUOT
Delete
Last edited by 2015rubyFX4; 12-31-2017 at 10:43 PM.
#18
Here's a better explanation. As the other mentioned, in an open diff, most of the time, both wheels are moving the vehicle forward. Without traction control, In a situation where one wheel has poor traction, let's say one wheel is on ice, that tire will spin and the other tire will not move, and you're stuck. For discussion purposes, we'll say the wheel with the least traction receives the torque and thus spins. When the traction control is on, it senses the wheel spin and selectively applies the brakes to just that wheel. That wheel comes to a complete stop because of the brake. Now the wheel with the least traction is the other wheel on dry pavement (it has the least traction because it can roll on the pavement, compared to the wheel that has been artificially stopped by the brake via traction control). Since torque goes to the wheel with the least traction, and now that wheel is the one on dry pavement, the torque is essentially transferred to the wheel on dry pavement and you're unstuck.
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#19
Senior Member
The manual is not so much wrong, as it is poorly worded or incomplete. The system works as the others have described and as is shown in the video.
Not sure what you mean when you say open diff means you have one driving wheel. Both wheels receive torque and drive the vehicle.
Here's a better explanation. As the other mentioned, in an open diff, most of the time, both wheels are moving the vehicle forward. Without traction control, In a situation where one wheel has poor traction, let's say one wheel is on ice, that tire will spin and the other tire will not move, and you're stuck. For discussion purposes, we'll say the wheel with the least traction receives the torque and thus spins. When the traction control is on, it senses the wheel spin and selectively applies the brakes to just that wheel. That wheel comes to a complete stop because of the brake. Now the wheel with the least traction is the other wheel on dry pavement (it has the least traction because it can roll on the pavement, compared to the wheel that has been artificially stopped by the brake via traction control). Since torque goes to the wheel with the least traction, and now that wheel is the one on dry pavement, the torque is essentially transferred to the wheel on dry pavement and you're unstuck.
Not sure what you mean when you say open diff means you have one driving wheel. Both wheels receive torque and drive the vehicle.
Here's a better explanation. As the other mentioned, in an open diff, most of the time, both wheels are moving the vehicle forward. Without traction control, In a situation where one wheel has poor traction, let's say one wheel is on ice, that tire will spin and the other tire will not move, and you're stuck. For discussion purposes, we'll say the wheel with the least traction receives the torque and thus spins. When the traction control is on, it senses the wheel spin and selectively applies the brakes to just that wheel. That wheel comes to a complete stop because of the brake. Now the wheel with the least traction is the other wheel on dry pavement (it has the least traction because it can roll on the pavement, compared to the wheel that has been artificially stopped by the brake via traction control). Since torque goes to the wheel with the least traction, and now that wheel is the one on dry pavement, the torque is essentially transferred to the wheel on dry pavement and you're unstuck.
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Florida_F150 (01-01-2018)
#20
Senior Member
Not according to the manual on my 13. From page 236.
PRINCIPLES OF OPERATION
The traction control system helps avoid drive wheel spin and loss of
traction.
If your vehicle begins to slide, the system applies the brakes to individual
wheels and, when needed, reduces engine power at the same time. If the
wheels spin when accelerating on slippery or loose surfaces, the system
reduces engine power in order to increase traction.
USING TRACTION CONTROL
In certain situations (for example, stuck in snow or mud), turning the
traction control off may be beneficial as this allows the wheels to spin
with full engine power.
Turn the traction control system off by pressing the
stability control button located on the center of the
instrument panel.
Someone is going to have to explain to me how power can be applied to a non driving wheel in a open dif vehicle. These trucks are not all wheel drive. Open dif means you have one driving wheel. Without a locker how is power applied to the non driving wheel through the differential? is there some type of gear engagement (automatic locker?)
PRINCIPLES OF OPERATION
The traction control system helps avoid drive wheel spin and loss of
traction.
If your vehicle begins to slide, the system applies the brakes to individual
wheels and, when needed, reduces engine power at the same time. If the
wheels spin when accelerating on slippery or loose surfaces, the system
reduces engine power in order to increase traction.
USING TRACTION CONTROL
In certain situations (for example, stuck in snow or mud), turning the
traction control off may be beneficial as this allows the wheels to spin
with full engine power.
Turn the traction control system off by pressing the
stability control button located on the center of the
instrument panel.
Someone is going to have to explain to me how power can be applied to a non driving wheel in a open dif vehicle. These trucks are not all wheel drive. Open dif means you have one driving wheel. Without a locker how is power applied to the non driving wheel through the differential? is there some type of gear engagement (automatic locker?)
They're similar in that the ABS applies brakes to the appropriate wheel it sees fit but have more or less different assignments.
You need to fully understand how an open differential works to understand traction control.
Short answer, if one wheel spins relative the the other wheel, traction control senses this via the ABS and applies the brake to the spinning wheel stopping only that wheel from spinning.
Because off the way an open differential is designed with its planetary gears, etc. the power is now transferred to the other wheel which has no brakes applied to it.