2017 3.5 eco many changes ahead
05-04-2016, 07:25 AM
#2
Senior Member
Interesting. I wonder if they will operate in port injection mode also to help curb some of the carbon buildup that plagues the current engines? They didn't say that...but I wonder if that was on their minds. And the bump to 450 lbs/ft was no doubt to try and stay competitive to GM's 6.2L V8 which makes 460, gets better fuel economy, and has been wildly popular in those trucks.
This should get interesting.....
As far as the 10-speeds go... gimmick all the way. Dodge was the first with a 5-speed, then 6-speed, then 8-speed and they've seen little to no real world fuel economy benefit. The small gains have some from engine efficiency, aero, and weight savings. You can stuff as many gears as you want into a trans, but you're still operating within the same ratio range from 1st to OD. All you're really doing is creating more shifts and more heat. You'd think Ford and GM would have learned from that.
This should get interesting.....
As far as the 10-speeds go... gimmick all the way. Dodge was the first with a 5-speed, then 6-speed, then 8-speed and they've seen little to no real world fuel economy benefit. The small gains have some from engine efficiency, aero, and weight savings. You can stuff as many gears as you want into a trans, but you're still operating within the same ratio range from 1st to OD. All you're really doing is creating more shifts and more heat. You'd think Ford and GM would have learned from that.
05-04-2016, 08:16 AM
#3
Cycle For Fun and Health
Interesting.
As far as the 10-speeds go... gimmick all the way. Dodge was the first with a 5-speed, then 6-speed, then 8-speed and they've seen little to no real world fuel economy benefit. The small gains have some from engine efficiency, aero, and weight savings. You can stuff as many gears as you want into a trans, but you're still operating within the same ratio range from 1st to OD. All you're really doing is creating more shifts and more heat. You'd think Ford and GM would have learned from that.
As far as the 10-speeds go... gimmick all the way. Dodge was the first with a 5-speed, then 6-speed, then 8-speed and they've seen little to no real world fuel economy benefit. The small gains have some from engine efficiency, aero, and weight savings. You can stuff as many gears as you want into a trans, but you're still operating within the same ratio range from 1st to OD. All you're really doing is creating more shifts and more heat. You'd think Ford and GM would have learned from that.
Adding more gears helps to keep the engine operating in a speed range where it has the best performance with the least fuel consumption. An 8-speed automatic can deliver up to 11 percent better fuel economy than a 6-speed, for example, depending on engine, vehicle and drive-axle gearing.
An important factor in the move to seven and more gears is the transmission’s ratio spread — the numerical relationship between first and top gear (called the overall ratio spread), or between adjacent gears — for instance, third and fourth gears.
Adding more gears is the only way to have a large overall ratio spread (for both good acceleration and quiet highway cruising) along with a small ratio spread between gears (to keep the engine revving at its best power level for a given road speed). The higher the number, the better. The new 9-speeds will have a ratio spread close to 10, compared with a typical 6-speed’s ratio spread of about six.
05-04-2016, 08:50 AM
#4
Maybe they should bring back the 6.2l. The best engine I've ever had! JS
05-04-2016, 09:53 PM
#5
Senior Member
I've had a RAM with the 8 speed in it. Continually seemed bogged down in 8th gear. Had to put the +/- button on the steering wheel to get it to downshift continually (or give mash on the gas to get it to downshift).
I can NOT imagine a 10 speed in ANY truck (maybe a car)..
Oh wait, the Chrysler 200 got the 9 speed (test drove that, hated it too).
They should just stick with the 6-speed tranny in a truck!
Of course, a Silverado man, and lovin' it.
I can NOT imagine a 10 speed in ANY truck (maybe a car)..
Oh wait, the Chrysler 200 got the 9 speed (test drove that, hated it too).
They should just stick with the 6-speed tranny in a truck!
Of course, a Silverado man, and lovin' it.
As far as the 10-speeds go... gimmick all the way. Dodge was the first with a 5-speed, then 6-speed, then 8-speed and they've seen little to no real world fuel economy benefit. The small gains have some from engine efficiency, aero, and weight savings. You can stuff as many gears as you want into a trans, but you're still operating within the same ratio range from 1st to OD. All you're really doing is creating more shifts and more heat. You'd think Ford and GM would have learned from that.
05-04-2016, 09:55 PM
#6
Senior Member
have you ever owned any vehicle with a 8-9-10 speed transmission?????? (or are you just quotings stats)?
Your opinion seems to be a little different than that of the manufacturers. Why would they spend billions of $$$'s if there was little to no benefit?
Adding more gears helps to keep the engine operating in a speed range where it has the best performance with the least fuel consumption. An 8-speed automatic can deliver up to 11 percent better fuel economy than a 6-speed, for example, depending on engine, vehicle and drive-axle gearing.
An important factor in the move to seven and more gears is the transmission’s ratio spread — the numerical relationship between first and top gear (called the overall ratio spread), or between adjacent gears — for instance, third and fourth gears.
Adding more gears is the only way to have a large overall ratio spread (for both good acceleration and quiet highway cruising) along with a small ratio spread between gears (to keep the engine revving at its best power level for a given road speed). The higher the number, the better. The new 9-speeds will have a ratio spread close to 10, compared with a typical 6-speed’s ratio spread of about six.
Adding more gears helps to keep the engine operating in a speed range where it has the best performance with the least fuel consumption. An 8-speed automatic can deliver up to 11 percent better fuel economy than a 6-speed, for example, depending on engine, vehicle and drive-axle gearing.
An important factor in the move to seven and more gears is the transmission’s ratio spread — the numerical relationship between first and top gear (called the overall ratio spread), or between adjacent gears — for instance, third and fourth gears.
Adding more gears is the only way to have a large overall ratio spread (for both good acceleration and quiet highway cruising) along with a small ratio spread between gears (to keep the engine revving at its best power level for a given road speed). The higher the number, the better. The new 9-speeds will have a ratio spread close to 10, compared with a typical 6-speed’s ratio spread of about six.
05-04-2016, 10:02 PM
#7
I would be inclined to say they will help with getting and keeping a load moving. Semi tractors used to run 13 speed manuals for the same reason. Keep the engine pulling in the rpm range where it pulls best.
Trending Topics
05-04-2016, 10:50 PM
#8
Cycle For Fun and Health
I do however have practical experience that goes back to the 2 speed power glides that GM used for many years.
Other brands normally used 3 speed automatics.
Most people that were concerned about the best fuel mileage purchased their vehicles with manual transmissions.
Then about 2004 the 4 speed autos came out.
With this and other improvements, the auto trans came to be more fuel efficient than the manual trans.
Then about 2009 the hot setup seemed to be the 6 speed autos that came out in numerous brand of cars and trucks.
The number of gears that will make for the most efficient vehicles has not yet been reached. (There may be a reason for large trucks to have many more gears available).
Will it be 10? 12? We don't have the answers to that yet.
You certainly do not believe that the manufacturers are spending all of this development money for bragging rights??
There is rhyme and reason to what is being done.
My current car has a 6 speed auto, 365 HP, rated at 25 MPG highway. Reality is 27 MPG highway traveling at legal highway speeds.
05-05-2016, 11:57 AM
#9
Senior Member
Your opinion seems to be a little different than that of the manufacturers. Why would they spend billions of $$$'s if there was little to no benefit?
Adding more gears helps to keep the engine operating in a speed range where it has the best performance with the least fuel consumption. An 8-speed automatic can deliver up to 11 percent better fuel economy than a 6-speed, for example, depending on engine, vehicle and drive-axle gearing.
An important factor in the move to seven and more gears is the transmission’s ratio spread — the numerical relationship between first and top gear (called the overall ratio spread), or between adjacent gears — for instance, third and fourth gears.
Adding more gears is the only way to have a large overall ratio spread (for both good acceleration and quiet highway cruising) along with a small ratio spread between gears (to keep the engine revving at its best power level for a given road speed). The higher the number, the better. The new 9-speeds will have a ratio spread close to 10, compared with a typical 6-speed’s ratio spread of about six.
Adding more gears helps to keep the engine operating in a speed range where it has the best performance with the least fuel consumption. An 8-speed automatic can deliver up to 11 percent better fuel economy than a 6-speed, for example, depending on engine, vehicle and drive-axle gearing.
An important factor in the move to seven and more gears is the transmission’s ratio spread — the numerical relationship between first and top gear (called the overall ratio spread), or between adjacent gears — for instance, third and fourth gears.
Adding more gears is the only way to have a large overall ratio spread (for both good acceleration and quiet highway cruising) along with a small ratio spread between gears (to keep the engine revving at its best power level for a given road speed). The higher the number, the better. The new 9-speeds will have a ratio spread close to 10, compared with a typical 6-speed’s ratio spread of about six.
Look at cars. Some have gone to CVT transmissions with INFINITE ratios possible within the "1st" and "OD" range... yet fuel economy has NOT improved. A 2008 Nissan Altima with CVT got the same real world fuel economy as the prior model with "old" automatic trans.
Again, the savings doesn't come with more gears. More gears just add complexity. Then again, we're talking about Ford here.. they just recalled trucks over transmission issues. Chrysler has had an absolute nightmare with their 9-speeds. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
05-05-2016, 12:35 PM
#10
One needs to look at the larger picture by the big three, their lack of vision and planning almost cost them everything. Vehicles today are faster, more reliable, more powerful, better equipped, and have significantly cleaner production and emissions. You can haul more, further, safer, and in more comfort. Is it as simple to work on a 1979 f 100? Nope, but you don't have to work on it as often either. I am dang proud of ford for doing the ecoboost and aluminum, GM for their i-4 diesel in the Colorado/canyon. Dodge for their diesel. Guys, I love the classics and have fond memories of a 1980 Bronco, and nobody likes to have their favorite stuff messed with, but really you should be proud that our guys are actually trying to innovate, so be supportive ( I guess we are since we bought/buying their trucks). In five years you might have a killer truck that gets 35 mpg, does 0-60 in 6, tows more than a 350 of our youth, and is absolutely amazing, but somebody will still whine and say it was better when the trucks were slower, broke down every 20k, uncomfortable, and got 8 mpg, cause that was a REAL truck!
The following 3 users liked this post by foxwalker: