RLXXI

Should be the same across the board, it's mostly the same hardware with differences in software for different applications. I've spent countless hours on the job and on my own time using the same system Ford dealers use, IDS, have pulled Mode 3,6 and 9 data and the only thing I have seen that shows for certain the pcm has been tampered with is if the vehicle is scanned while it's still tuned it kicks back a calibration error code.

Other than that, nada.
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RLXXI

All I ask is you show me their proof, I've researched in-depth for the past 20 years at least, and everyone talks about it being possible at the dealer level with IDS. I call BS on everyone because not one person has ever shown proof it can be done. I have IDS, I had WDS, I also own my own NGS, my training is Ford authorized on every aspect of the vehicle with exception to automatic transmissions, I specialized in electrical/electronics, drivability etc on top of etc.

So show me your proof, don't tell me others have done this and found that, that's all rhetoric, not one person has ever come forward with evidence that I know for a fact is not there.

Yeah, send the pcm in to Ford and they can probably decipher it. That's not dealer level.
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RLXXI

Key cycle count, I've heard that one also, pure BS, suppose my 3yo son likes to make the lights on the dash go on and off and make noise by turning the key on and off repeatedly. Keeps him occupied.

Does that prove my pcm has been tuned? NO, just proves my son is extremely curious as he should be at that age. To be fair I should have said my grandson, lol.

Still waiting for proof that's not there, unless the vehicle is scanned while tuned, nothing shows up at the dealer level.
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SteveLord

Had my vehicle worked on a few times with the tune on. Warranty intact. Just had water pump replaced after taking direction from Ford this week.

Dirttracker18

Again, I am highly dubious. How did the forums confirm this? Did someone post definitive proof of this or did someone on the forum claim that they know for certain?

We have a Ford trained tech with specialization in the electrical and electronics saying it isn't so.

My friend is also a Ford trained tech with specialization in Ford Diesel tech that has told me the same (and we all know that the diesels are some of the most tuned vehicles out there). He has no reason to lie to me and is trained with every piece of Ford diesel training available.
He left Ford a few years ago because he was headhunted due to his vast knowledge and skills and offered a few different options that he could not resist.

Personally, my own training is not enough to confirm or deny that this possibility exists but I have never seen actual proof or her any dealer tech tell me that yes they can definitively tell if a vehicle has been tuned after it was return to stock. They certainly see many that give them high suspicions but without the owner saying yes I did, they cannot actually prove it.

They have noted that in many cases they suspected and denied claims but are forced to uphold them if the owner fights back. Kind of like insurance companies, they will deny claims in the hope that the owner just lets it go if they are actually at fault.

zukmeister

well if you're correct my good friend, i'm about to tune the sh*t out of my 5.0 GT and the 3.5 eco

WXman

The Ford Techs I know, as well as the dealer letter that got posted on the forum, say that you can use IDS to pull the Mode 6 and Mode 9 data, as well as a couple of other data points, and you can tell whether the vehicle has been altered in the past.

This isn't 1986 guys. Automakers have wicked talent with the computers on these things now days. Heck, Chrysler was so good at locking down their ECUs that it took a couple of years for professional tuning companies to even crack the code to get inside and write tunes for them. I think some 2011 and newer vehicles in their lineup still aren't tuned.

Dirttracker18

Again, you are making assumptions with nothing to back it up.

The dealer letter did not say that they can tell. In fact it specifically noted that if alteration is suspected then to ask the owner.

OEM may have "wicked talent" but would you not then say the same for those that are tuning for better performance?

What you are missing here is that when a vehicle computer is tuned, it is not altering the programming but in fact removing the stock program and inserting entirely new programming. When you return to stock it removes the tuned program and reinstalls the original program. There is no alteration to look for.

I will temper this by saying that the information I provided above is to the best of my knowledge and I am not a factory trained mechanic. My training is general and now out of date. However I have yet to speak with a factory tech that has told me otherwise or that can show me that they can, with certainty, tell if a vehicle has been computer tuned.

RLXXI

I am Ford factory trained, spent the better part of 11 years as such as the sole tech at my dealer, it's NOT possible at dealer level, I have proven this over and over ad infinitum.

There's always someone playing chicken little, That sky never falls as far as this subject is concerned. But it always comes up by someone that is brainwashed into believing it possible.

Suppose I tune my truck or any Ford, then use IDS or Forscan to flash the system back to as built, that's the same flash they run when the vehicle is being assembled, it's equivalent to doing a low level format on a computer hard drive except in the case of a new build.

Wipes everything out so much so not even the best computer gurus for a nations government can retrieve past info from.
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RLXXI

Mode 6 and 9 data from my own truck using IDS. I willingly ask anyone to show me the evidence my truck was ever tuned, I recorded the info after it was returned to stock.







To the untrained eye it looks like a butt load of gibberish, to my eye, it gives a clear picture of how the vehicle is running.

The only thing that data does is give a tech a history of sensor values for troubleshooting a customer concern.
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