Cranking issue PLEASE HELP
12-19-2017, 03:06 PM
#1
Cranking issue PLEASE HELP
*****RESOLVED****
Reference for starter will not disengage from flywheel - automatic C6 2WD-
1978 F150 Short Bed 2WD Auto
I just traded my 94 Jeep daily driver for a 78 or 79 Ford F-150 or F100 with a 302 & C6 auto trans (since getting it and going elbows deep, a lot of things are not what I was originally told). SO to rundown, when the truck was delivered, when I would crank it, the starter made a hard grind sound as if it was too close to the flywheel, the owner said he had recently replaced the flywheel but looking at it, there is adequate surface oxidation and rust spots that make me question his idea of recent.
The morning after I got it, i drove it 40 miles to work, when I went to leave, there was no sound when i turned the key. no click to starter action. and here it has sat for the past 4 days while i research and attempt to fix it. So what has been done to this point, based on internet research and discovery? first what I have found in the middle of all of this, is the block engine code says the block is out of a 1975-Falcon or Futura-series 2 & the head is out of a 1971-Gran Torino-Series 1. The spark plugs for a 302 as per napa and pepboys are 5/8 socket, and the ones out of the engine are 13/16 So I am guessing this isn't a 302 after all.
I have:
changed the Battery to an Optoma Red top
changed the starter Solenoid (2 times) also removed oxidation on fender well to allow for better ground behind solenoid
Changed the Starter.
Changed the + battery cable going to the solenoid
Changed the battery Ground cable, which was running to the valve cover bolt, relocated it to the starter bolt as per Ford suggests
Changed the Starter cable from the Solenoid
Installed a new Ignition Control Module
Installed a new Ignition
Installed a new key tumbler
Removed every positive wire that was installed by the previous owner to power his various lights and peripherals.
Changed the Plugs, wires, distributor cap, and rotor.
through all the testing and back and forth the thing that kept and is still happening is the starter wont disengage from the flywheel. even when I got it to crank. (in thinking it was a 302, I hooked up the wires according to a 1978 302 firing order and it was obviously wrong. now I believe my timing is off but I don't have access to a timing light or the know how to fix that... none of that fixed the hard grind that was happening so i shimmed out the starter .6 and it now sounds normal when i try to crank it. -now it wont crank, and the starter still wont release from the flywheel when in the run position.
Testing shows that the S cable on the solenoid is carrying 6volts when the key is in the on positon so after attempting to crank it, most likely that is what is keeping it engaged. WHAT is causing this feedback?!
Reference for starter will not disengage from flywheel - automatic C6 2WD-
1978 F150 Short Bed 2WD Auto
I just traded my 94 Jeep daily driver for a 78 or 79 Ford F-150 or F100 with a 302 & C6 auto trans (since getting it and going elbows deep, a lot of things are not what I was originally told). SO to rundown, when the truck was delivered, when I would crank it, the starter made a hard grind sound as if it was too close to the flywheel, the owner said he had recently replaced the flywheel but looking at it, there is adequate surface oxidation and rust spots that make me question his idea of recent.
The morning after I got it, i drove it 40 miles to work, when I went to leave, there was no sound when i turned the key. no click to starter action. and here it has sat for the past 4 days while i research and attempt to fix it. So what has been done to this point, based on internet research and discovery? first what I have found in the middle of all of this, is the block engine code says the block is out of a 1975-Falcon or Futura-series 2 & the head is out of a 1971-Gran Torino-Series 1. The spark plugs for a 302 as per napa and pepboys are 5/8 socket, and the ones out of the engine are 13/16 So I am guessing this isn't a 302 after all.
I have:
changed the Battery to an Optoma Red top
changed the starter Solenoid (2 times) also removed oxidation on fender well to allow for better ground behind solenoid
Changed the Starter.
Changed the + battery cable going to the solenoid
Changed the battery Ground cable, which was running to the valve cover bolt, relocated it to the starter bolt as per Ford suggests
Changed the Starter cable from the Solenoid
Installed a new Ignition Control Module
Installed a new Ignition
Installed a new key tumbler
Removed every positive wire that was installed by the previous owner to power his various lights and peripherals.
Changed the Plugs, wires, distributor cap, and rotor.
through all the testing and back and forth the thing that kept and is still happening is the starter wont disengage from the flywheel. even when I got it to crank. (in thinking it was a 302, I hooked up the wires according to a 1978 302 firing order and it was obviously wrong. now I believe my timing is off but I don't have access to a timing light or the know how to fix that... none of that fixed the hard grind that was happening so i shimmed out the starter .6 and it now sounds normal when i try to crank it. -now it wont crank, and the starter still wont release from the flywheel when in the run position.
Testing shows that the S cable on the solenoid is carrying 6volts when the key is in the on positon so after attempting to crank it, most likely that is what is keeping it engaged. WHAT is causing this feedback?!
Last edited by Chasedrk1; 12-22-2017 at 10:15 AM. Reason: ****RESOLVED****
12-19-2017, 11:00 PM
#3
Senior Member
Looks like a 351M/400 based on carb, accessory locations, and general motor pictures.
Starters are different based on motor and transmission. So make sure that you are replacing it with the correct starter. I recommend a PMGR starter, much smaller, high torque, less heat soak involved. Fords of this era typically don't need shimmed.
Glad to see you replaced all those battery cables, they looked like garbage and that would've been my first suggestion.
Not 100% sure on what's causing your 6 volts, looks like you replaced everything that may be involved. Try removing the S wire and jumping the main terminals to see if it'll start and then disengage.
I'd start with trying to nail down exactly what engine you have (measure the stroke) and then ensure you have the correct starter. Go from there. Keep us updated.
Starters are different based on motor and transmission. So make sure that you are replacing it with the correct starter. I recommend a PMGR starter, much smaller, high torque, less heat soak involved. Fords of this era typically don't need shimmed.
Glad to see you replaced all those battery cables, they looked like garbage and that would've been my first suggestion.
Not 100% sure on what's causing your 6 volts, looks like you replaced everything that may be involved. Try removing the S wire and jumping the main terminals to see if it'll start and then disengage.
I'd start with trying to nail down exactly what engine you have (measure the stroke) and then ensure you have the correct starter. Go from there. Keep us updated.
12-20-2017, 07:57 AM
#4
Looks like a 351M/400 based on carb, accessory locations, and general motor pictures.
Starters are different based on motor and transmission. So make sure that you are replacing it with the correct starter. I recommend a PMGR starter, much smaller, high torque, less heat soak involved. Fords of this era typically don't need shimmed.
Glad to see you replaced all those battery cables, they looked like garbage and that would've been my first suggestion.
Not 100% sure on what's causing your 6 volts, looks like you replaced everything that may be involved. Try removing the S wire and jumping the main terminals to see if it'll start and then disengage.
I'd start with trying to nail down exactly what engine you have (measure the stroke) and then ensure you have the correct starter. Go from there. Keep us updated.
Starters are different based on motor and transmission. So make sure that you are replacing it with the correct starter. I recommend a PMGR starter, much smaller, high torque, less heat soak involved. Fords of this era typically don't need shimmed.
Glad to see you replaced all those battery cables, they looked like garbage and that would've been my first suggestion.
Not 100% sure on what's causing your 6 volts, looks like you replaced everything that may be involved. Try removing the S wire and jumping the main terminals to see if it'll start and then disengage.
I'd start with trying to nail down exactly what engine you have (measure the stroke) and then ensure you have the correct starter. Go from there. Keep us updated.
We have jumped the solenoid without the S wire engaged and yes it engaged and disengaged properly. that is how we ruled out the battery, solenoid, starter, and wiring on that side.
Nailing down the engine is where I am stuck actually. any suggestions on how I can figure this out?
Last edited by Chasedrk1; 12-20-2017 at 09:34 AM.
12-20-2017, 11:11 AM
#5
Senior Member
Quick answer: I revise my earlier answer, just saw your dipstick is in front of the engine. That's gonna almost surely be a 351 Cleveland. Confirm that the valve covers have 8 bolts in them. Confirm if your 2 fuel pump mounting bolts are horizontally or vertically arranged.
Better answer: Around the starter area is a block casting number. You can scrape at the area with a steel wire brush and then post it up or google it. One of the casting numbers will likely start with D_AE
Better answer: Around the starter area is a block casting number. You can scrape at the area with a steel wire brush and then post it up or google it. One of the casting numbers will likely start with D_AE
Last edited by burnthelight88; 12-20-2017 at 11:13 AM.
12-20-2017, 11:18 AM
#6
Quick answer: I revise my earlier answer, just saw your dipstick is in front of the engine. That's gonna almost surely be a 351 Cleveland. Confirm that the valve covers have 8 bolts in them. Confirm if your 2 fuel pump mounting bolts are horizontally or vertically arranged.
Better answer: Around the starter area is a block casting number. You can scrape at the area with a steel wire brush and then post it up or google it. One of the casting numbers will likely start with D_AE
Better answer: Around the starter area is a block casting number. You can scrape at the area with a steel wire brush and then post it up or google it. One of the casting numbers will likely start with D_AE
D5DE 9490 BG
12-20-2017, 04:39 PM
#7
Senior Member
That's stamped on your exhaust manifold, making it the exhaust manifold part number. I need the casting number, again its above the starter. Or like I said, check number of valve cover bolts and orientation of fuel pump bolts.
Last edited by burnthelight88; 12-20-2017 at 04:41 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Chasedrk1 (12-22-2017)
Trending Topics
12-22-2017, 09:02 AM
#8
The Starter not disengaging issue has been resolved.
Final diagnosis- short on Neutral Safety Switch wire caused voltage bleed back up to the solenoid. Also, Neutral Safety Switch itself is beginning to fail.
Transmission - C6 Automatic in 1978 F-150 . Neutral Safety Switch is located on side of transmission. This is worth saying here, I researched for a few hours and the information I found placed the switch on the clutch pedal for a manual or in the steering column.
Final diagnosis- short on Neutral Safety Switch wire caused voltage bleed back up to the solenoid. Also, Neutral Safety Switch itself is beginning to fail.
Transmission - C6 Automatic in 1978 F-150 . Neutral Safety Switch is located on side of transmission. This is worth saying here, I researched for a few hours and the information I found placed the switch on the clutch pedal for a manual or in the steering column.
