I'm runnin diesel in my 04 5.4 lariat. Continue ? Ornot?
09-15-2015, 08:47 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I'm runnin diesel in my 04 5.4 lariat. Continue ? Ornot?
Greetings
I've had the engine ticking . Since I bought the truck really. At 105k. I've tried a few different adds over time. Lucas HD , Restore, etc. without being able to get into the whole phaser and all that, I thought I'd try the diesel oil as I'd heard some had luck with it, and supposedly will not do harm. So, been running it, and ready for oil change. Truck runs the same but still have the little ticking. I'm curious as to what I should go to next. Run more diesel or go to a standard , 10 or 5? Running 15 40 Mobil diesel I think .
Anyone have any suggestions ?
Any advice, positive constructive criticism , thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Matt -
I've had the engine ticking . Since I bought the truck really. At 105k. I've tried a few different adds over time. Lucas HD , Restore, etc. without being able to get into the whole phaser and all that, I thought I'd try the diesel oil as I'd heard some had luck with it, and supposedly will not do harm. So, been running it, and ready for oil change. Truck runs the same but still have the little ticking. I'm curious as to what I should go to next. Run more diesel or go to a standard , 10 or 5? Running 15 40 Mobil diesel I think .
Anyone have any suggestions ?
Any advice, positive constructive criticism , thoughts and ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Matt -
09-15-2015, 09:10 PM
#2
Member
I run diesel oil in a few 5.4L engines. it has helped with ticking, and oil leaks. There has been no issues with longevity, or oil related issues at all. so run it and don't look back! it will not hurt anything!
09-16-2015, 11:31 AM
#3
LightningRod
@dasswright
Same vehicle, same ticking noise -when hot, same prior efforts. 2004 with 206,000 mi on the clock. On a couple of occasions, I've done multiple (maybe 3) rapid oil & filter changes each with extreme flush and had the tick disappear for a while and/or become intermittent, but ultimately come back. I added an oil pressure gauge and found that stone cold oil pressure with 5w20 full synthetic Mobile 1 would run 70-73 lbs - AT IDLE. Full operating temp (when the tick was most noticeable) pressure would sag to 18-19 at idle (600 rpm). I decided I didn't need a thicker oil on the low end. So I switched to 0w40 full synthetic (following an extreme flush) and it improved the tick "somewhat", but did not eliminate it. However, the diesel knock sound completely went away on mine. The tick is still there, but intermittently will be GONE COMLETELY and sound like a Swiss watch.... ????? WTF??? I can only conclude it must be a "sticky", "leaky" or otherwise faulty lash adjuster. I also occasionally have the noticeably rough idle. It seems to be related, not always coinciding, but always perfectly smooth idle when the tick is GONE.
By extreme flush, I mean I ran a dose of Marvel Mystery Oil for couple hundred miles, then added two cans of flush (the clear liquid stuff) that they say to run 5 minutes. I idled for 10-15 min, then let set over night. Started next morning & idled till warm up ---- then drained & changed Oil and filter. With the two bottles of flush in there it would idle at 9-10 lbs oil pressure. --- pretty low, but NOT damaging in my opinion.
BTW. Thick-Thick oil (I tried a double dose of LUCUS) caused the phasers to become sluggish in responding to the ECU's retard command.
Same vehicle, same ticking noise -when hot, same prior efforts. 2004 with 206,000 mi on the clock. On a couple of occasions, I've done multiple (maybe 3) rapid oil & filter changes each with extreme flush and had the tick disappear for a while and/or become intermittent, but ultimately come back. I added an oil pressure gauge and found that stone cold oil pressure with 5w20 full synthetic Mobile 1 would run 70-73 lbs - AT IDLE. Full operating temp (when the tick was most noticeable) pressure would sag to 18-19 at idle (600 rpm). I decided I didn't need a thicker oil on the low end. So I switched to 0w40 full synthetic (following an extreme flush) and it improved the tick "somewhat", but did not eliminate it. However, the diesel knock sound completely went away on mine. The tick is still there, but intermittently will be GONE COMLETELY and sound like a Swiss watch.... ????? WTF??? I can only conclude it must be a "sticky", "leaky" or otherwise faulty lash adjuster. I also occasionally have the noticeably rough idle. It seems to be related, not always coinciding, but always perfectly smooth idle when the tick is GONE.
By extreme flush, I mean I ran a dose of Marvel Mystery Oil for couple hundred miles, then added two cans of flush (the clear liquid stuff) that they say to run 5 minutes. I idled for 10-15 min, then let set over night. Started next morning & idled till warm up ---- then drained & changed Oil and filter. With the two bottles of flush in there it would idle at 9-10 lbs oil pressure. --- pretty low, but NOT damaging in my opinion.
BTW. Thick-Thick oil (I tried a double dose of LUCUS) caused the phasers to become sluggish in responding to the ECU's retard command.
09-17-2015, 05:54 PM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for the excellent replies. I've been planning a oil pressure gauge but haven't figured out how to hook it up. Add it to the system without creating issues/ codes. Really appreciate both of your input . Didn't see any response when I went to get oil, do searched web and ended up buying some 10 30 royal purple. Should I get some 0 instead? Or continue diesel . It almost seems as if the diesel made it alittle worse. At first start after diesel it seemed good. Runnin quiet and smooth. But now it's ticking fairly decent. Not terrible. But I'd really like to settle this. I feel I need to go something before end up with serious problems . Seems not getting enough oil / pressure. Will replacing sending unit help? Oil pump? Man, I feel lost and can't afford to throw it at a shop...
Really appreciate you taking the time offering assistance
Really appreciate you taking the time offering assistance
09-18-2015, 07:09 AM
#5
Don't bother with the Marvel Mystery Oil. Any good oil (which they pretty much all are nowadays) has all the detergents you could ever need, and too much MMO could actually thin the oil out too much. Save your money.
So, that said, if you want a TRUE cleaner that your oil doesn't already have, look up Kreen. You'll need to order it from Kano Labs directly; they don't sell it to consumers. You basically have to pretend you're a company.
So, that said, if you want a TRUE cleaner that your oil doesn't already have, look up Kreen. You'll need to order it from Kano Labs directly; they don't sell it to consumers. You basically have to pretend you're a company.
09-18-2015, 11:48 AM
#6
LightningRod
@dasswrigt
I was able to put a brass 1/4 NPT "T" where the sending unit is on the oil filter base to accommodate both the OEM and the new sending units. (I added a digital electronic oil pressure gauge so I didn't have to route a copper line to the inside of the cab). Not much room in there, but it worked. I think that is a VERY useful addition. The dash gauge is a complete fraud - reading steady just above mid point based strictly on a pressure switch set at 7 lbs.
Truthfully MMO v. Kreen is above my pay grade. I have no idea what ingredients either has - and they say Marvel Mystery Oil's name even comes from its ingredients still remain a mystery. I know reading the labels on ANY of those damn additives reads like SNAKE OIL -- it cleans everything, improves everything, fixes everything, makes everything last longer in both the fuel system and oil! Probably all 100% BS. guess I'm victim of the fact that my Father swore by it. But, anyway, even knowing the MMO thins the oil, my objective was to try to accomplish as thorough a flush as possible without opening it up.
As for the viscosity of the oil my reasoning was not based on product labels or glowing testimonials, but additional input, being readings from two sources. The oil pressure gauge and some gauges added to my scan tool by "hacking" the OBDII system with the Troque Pro app to monitor what the Variable Valve Timing system is actually doing. A very lengthy discussion was posted about this at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...l#post15647418
Thicker oil does effect the V.V.T. system response and operation - which is (IMO) the source of the "diesel-ing" or "knocking" sound - but NOT the "tick". I think it is one or more "lash adjusters". I just didn't feel that I needed thicker oil on the cold viscosity end. It would idle at or above 70lbs cold. Shouldn't even need the 5w cold. But the hot viscosity would sag - not that bad, but occasionally to 18 or even 17 depending on exact idle speed. With 0w40 it will cold idle 61-63 here in the summer time. Perhaps more this winter. But it raised the hot idle to, 22-23.
0w40 (recommended for BMW's and some other late model engines with variable valve timing components) has significantly helped the diesel knock on my 200k mi 5.4L. For that reason I'm sticking with it. But the "tick", while possibly better, is still there although not consistent. Sometimes it is there and sounds awful. Sometimes its gone. I can't help believe it's a sticky or flakey lash adjuster. I just know it's frustrating. I hesitate to do them without doing timing chains, phasers and all, but at the time I have no other drivability issues = except I can "create" a DTC P0022 by fluctuating the accelerator rapidly in second gear.
At some point - suppose I'll have to address that.
Good luck.
I was able to put a brass 1/4 NPT "T" where the sending unit is on the oil filter base to accommodate both the OEM and the new sending units. (I added a digital electronic oil pressure gauge so I didn't have to route a copper line to the inside of the cab). Not much room in there, but it worked. I think that is a VERY useful addition. The dash gauge is a complete fraud - reading steady just above mid point based strictly on a pressure switch set at 7 lbs.
Truthfully MMO v. Kreen is above my pay grade. I have no idea what ingredients either has - and they say Marvel Mystery Oil's name even comes from its ingredients still remain a mystery. I know reading the labels on ANY of those damn additives reads like SNAKE OIL -- it cleans everything, improves everything, fixes everything, makes everything last longer in both the fuel system and oil! Probably all 100% BS. guess I'm victim of the fact that my Father swore by it. But, anyway, even knowing the MMO thins the oil, my objective was to try to accomplish as thorough a flush as possible without opening it up.
As for the viscosity of the oil my reasoning was not based on product labels or glowing testimonials, but additional input, being readings from two sources. The oil pressure gauge and some gauges added to my scan tool by "hacking" the OBDII system with the Troque Pro app to monitor what the Variable Valve Timing system is actually doing. A very lengthy discussion was posted about this at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...l#post15647418
Thicker oil does effect the V.V.T. system response and operation - which is (IMO) the source of the "diesel-ing" or "knocking" sound - but NOT the "tick". I think it is one or more "lash adjusters". I just didn't feel that I needed thicker oil on the cold viscosity end. It would idle at or above 70lbs cold. Shouldn't even need the 5w cold. But the hot viscosity would sag - not that bad, but occasionally to 18 or even 17 depending on exact idle speed. With 0w40 it will cold idle 61-63 here in the summer time. Perhaps more this winter. But it raised the hot idle to, 22-23.
0w40 (recommended for BMW's and some other late model engines with variable valve timing components) has significantly helped the diesel knock on my 200k mi 5.4L. For that reason I'm sticking with it. But the "tick", while possibly better, is still there although not consistent. Sometimes it is there and sounds awful. Sometimes its gone. I can't help believe it's a sticky or flakey lash adjuster. I just know it's frustrating. I hesitate to do them without doing timing chains, phasers and all, but at the time I have no other drivability issues = except I can "create" a DTC P0022 by fluctuating the accelerator rapidly in second gear.
At some point - suppose I'll have to address that.
Good luck.
10-01-2015, 01:54 PM
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
@dasswrigt
I was able to put a brass 1/4 NPT "T" where the sending unit is on the oil filter base to accommodate both the OEM and the new sending units. (I added a digital electronic oil pressure gauge so I didn't have to route a copper line to the inside of the cab). Not much room in there, but it worked. I think that is a VERY useful addition. The dash gauge is a complete fraud - reading steady just above mid point based strictly on a pressure switch set at 7 lbs.
Truthfully MMO v. Kreen is above my pay grade. I have no idea what ingredients either has - and they say Marvel Mystery Oil's name even comes from its ingredients still remain a mystery. I know reading the labels on ANY of those damn additives reads like SNAKE OIL -- it cleans everything, improves everything, fixes everything, makes everything last longer in both the fuel system and oil! Probably all 100% BS. guess I'm victim of the fact that my Father swore by it. But, anyway, even knowing the MMO thins the oil, my objective was to try to accomplish as thorough a flush as possible without opening it up.
As for the viscosity of the oil my reasoning was not based on product labels or glowing testimonials, but additional input, being readings from two sources. The oil pressure gauge and some gauges added to my scan tool by "hacking" the OBDII system with the Troque Pro app to monitor what the Variable Valve Timing system is actually doing. A very lengthy discussion was posted about this at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...l#post15647418
Thicker oil does effect the V.V.T. system response and operation - which is (IMO) the source of the "diesel-ing" or "knocking" sound - but NOT the "tick". I think it is one or more "lash adjusters". I just didn't feel that I needed thicker oil on the cold viscosity end. It would idle at or above 70lbs cold. Shouldn't even need the 5w cold. But the hot viscosity would sag - not that bad, but occasionally to 18 or even 17 depending on exact idle speed. With 0w40 it will cold idle 61-63 here in the summer time. Perhaps more this winter. But it raised the hot idle to, 22-23.
0w40 (recommended for BMW's and some other late model engines with variable valve timing components) has significantly helped the diesel knock on my 200k mi 5.4L. For that reason I'm sticking with it. But the "tick", while possibly better, is still there although not consistent. Sometimes it is there and sounds awful. Sometimes its gone. I can't help believe it's a sticky or flakey lash adjuster. I just know it's frustrating. I hesitate to do them without doing timing chains, phasers and all, but at the time I have no other drivability issues = except I can "create" a DTC P0022 by fluctuating the accelerator rapidly in second gear.
At some point - suppose I'll have to address that.
Good luck.
I was able to put a brass 1/4 NPT "T" where the sending unit is on the oil filter base to accommodate both the OEM and the new sending units. (I added a digital electronic oil pressure gauge so I didn't have to route a copper line to the inside of the cab). Not much room in there, but it worked. I think that is a VERY useful addition. The dash gauge is a complete fraud - reading steady just above mid point based strictly on a pressure switch set at 7 lbs.
Truthfully MMO v. Kreen is above my pay grade. I have no idea what ingredients either has - and they say Marvel Mystery Oil's name even comes from its ingredients still remain a mystery. I know reading the labels on ANY of those damn additives reads like SNAKE OIL -- it cleans everything, improves everything, fixes everything, makes everything last longer in both the fuel system and oil! Probably all 100% BS. guess I'm victim of the fact that my Father swore by it. But, anyway, even knowing the MMO thins the oil, my objective was to try to accomplish as thorough a flush as possible without opening it up.
As for the viscosity of the oil my reasoning was not based on product labels or glowing testimonials, but additional input, being readings from two sources. The oil pressure gauge and some gauges added to my scan tool by "hacking" the OBDII system with the Troque Pro app to monitor what the Variable Valve Timing system is actually doing. A very lengthy discussion was posted about this at:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/11...l#post15647418
Thicker oil does effect the V.V.T. system response and operation - which is (IMO) the source of the "diesel-ing" or "knocking" sound - but NOT the "tick". I think it is one or more "lash adjusters". I just didn't feel that I needed thicker oil on the cold viscosity end. It would idle at or above 70lbs cold. Shouldn't even need the 5w cold. But the hot viscosity would sag - not that bad, but occasionally to 18 or even 17 depending on exact idle speed. With 0w40 it will cold idle 61-63 here in the summer time. Perhaps more this winter. But it raised the hot idle to, 22-23.
0w40 (recommended for BMW's and some other late model engines with variable valve timing components) has significantly helped the diesel knock on my 200k mi 5.4L. For that reason I'm sticking with it. But the "tick", while possibly better, is still there although not consistent. Sometimes it is there and sounds awful. Sometimes its gone. I can't help believe it's a sticky or flakey lash adjuster. I just know it's frustrating. I hesitate to do them without doing timing chains, phasers and all, but at the time I have no other drivability issues = except I can "create" a DTC P0022 by fluctuating the accelerator rapidly in second gear.
At some point - suppose I'll have to address that.
Good luck.
Thanks for your well spoken detailed seemingly wise response and advice.
I picked up some new gauges. With water, batt, and oil pressure. Got the t fitting and everything I think I need to install. Talking to the auto store (small Mtn town) about my concerns regarding the little plastic hose that carries the oil to gauge they say it'll be fine . Which I'm sceptical. Heard of some using brass ? As the plastic line will melt ? Planning to give the plastic a shot and prob thread it into some other (rubber hose) idk.
I bought the oil sending unit and trying to make sure it's the right part going in the right place. Haven't been able to find much regarding these specifics online.
Maybe just take to a shop .
Really can't afford any errors right now.
On my way to work, hundreds of miles through desert to an off grid location 18 miles down a desert wash road
Got a trans that getting a little warm pulling a trailer, engine with diesel sound , and my 4x is still broke.
So, I'm trying to get my truck as strong as I can in little time en route to a pretty epic extreme work project ...
Looking over your advice on my mission . Going in to grab some 0 40 royal purp..
Thank you for your help!
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10-02-2015, 12:59 PM
#8
Running diesel oil in a gas engine will damage your cats. I'd stick to automotive oil. The noises are being caused by worn timing components so no oil will really cute the issue, maybe just mask it if you're lucky.