5.4L PHASERS/VARIABLE VALVE TIMING technical question - Degš. Advance?
Serge29
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton
Im having a issue, my mechanic did timing job but p0011 and p0021 code there, truck running smooth with no issue but little rough on ideal and these codes pop on at slow speed, if Im going on highway then no codes for 300km. Please suggest, vct solenoid has been changed. He did timing twice and now he gave up.. lol looks like he is not too good enough to fix it, please help if you can. Thanks
Wow. That's weird. You sure you didn't install lockouts in those phasers! I agree completely with your diagnostic assessment of the data stream. The graphs indicate CAM ERROR 1 & 2 ('+' = Over Advanced) just track the solenoid duty cycle signal being applied to the VCT solenoids. When retard is requested - cams just don't budge. And I agree that oil pressure above ~ 800 (where PCM begins requesting retard) your oil pressure is probably already up to 40 - 45 lbs and should be plenty sufficient to retard cams. Clearly - that is not happening.
Check simple things 1st. Realize the signals we are looking at from OBDII are 'digital' numeric outputs from the PCM --- NOT a volt meter connected to the VCT SOLENOIDS.
Make sure you have +12 Volts source voltage on pin 1 of the VCT Solenoids. Verify they are plugged in good, good connection back to the PCM. You 'CAN' actually stick a pin through the PCM signal wire (pin 2) which runs back to the PCM pins 67 & 68 (bank 1 & 2 respectively), and attach a jumper wire to the pin through a 50 ohm resistor. Ground a steel file to the engine or frame ground and drag the resister up and down the 'file' to produce duty cycles to the solenoid. This will not harm the PCM. The PCM signal to the VCT is passive, pulling it to ground with duty cycle pulses when retard is called for. This will actuate (open) a properly operating VCT solenoid. If the 'locking pin' in the phaser is locked @12 lbs oil pressure - NOTHING will happen. If not it will retard the cam on that bank and cause very rough idle. When you stop actuating the solenoid, you may have to rev the engine to build oil pressure up enough to push the cam back to advance / locked position. If smooth idle returns - it's a good thing. It means your oil pressure is adequate to push cams back to full advance position without any acceleration help.
I do have a question about your data stream. Are you on latest version of Torque pro? I know the PCM will NOT request retard < 25 % engine load. I believe the PCM 'IS" issuing VCT duty cycle signals to both solenoids (or there should be NO VCT DC requests). The ONLY thing that makes sense about RCAM and RCAM2 staying flat-lined around zero on your graph would be a problem in the formula in Torque.
From the 'Manage Extra Sensors / PIDs' screen for RCAM or RCAM2, you can press the TEST button and see each step of the formula being executed. Check that and make sure it is 'ABS(SIGNED(A)*256+B)/12.8' I think you have a failure in that formula in Torque Pro.
Post back and fill us in on your progress / findings.
Check simple things 1st. Realize the signals we are looking at from OBDII are 'digital' numeric outputs from the PCM --- NOT a volt meter connected to the VCT SOLENOIDS.
Make sure you have +12 Volts source voltage on pin 1 of the VCT Solenoids. Verify they are plugged in good, good connection back to the PCM. You 'CAN' actually stick a pin through the PCM signal wire (pin 2) which runs back to the PCM pins 67 & 68 (bank 1 & 2 respectively), and attach a jumper wire to the pin through a 50 ohm resistor. Ground a steel file to the engine or frame ground and drag the resister up and down the 'file' to produce duty cycles to the solenoid. This will not harm the PCM. The PCM signal to the VCT is passive, pulling it to ground with duty cycle pulses when retard is called for. This will actuate (open) a properly operating VCT solenoid. If the 'locking pin' in the phaser is locked @12 lbs oil pressure - NOTHING will happen. If not it will retard the cam on that bank and cause very rough idle. When you stop actuating the solenoid, you may have to rev the engine to build oil pressure up enough to push the cam back to advance / locked position. If smooth idle returns - it's a good thing. It means your oil pressure is adequate to push cams back to full advance position without any acceleration help.
I do have a question about your data stream. Are you on latest version of Torque pro? I know the PCM will NOT request retard < 25 % engine load. I believe the PCM 'IS" issuing VCT duty cycle signals to both solenoids (or there should be NO VCT DC requests). The ONLY thing that makes sense about RCAM and RCAM2 staying flat-lined around zero on your graph would be a problem in the formula in Torque.
From the 'Manage Extra Sensors / PIDs' screen for RCAM or RCAM2, you can press the TEST button and see each step of the formula being executed. Check that and make sure it is 'ABS(SIGNED(A)*256+B)/12.8' I think you have a failure in that formula in Torque Pro.
Post back and fill us in on your progress / findings.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 15
Likes: 8
VCT locked out?
Im having a issue, my mechanic did timing job but p0011 and p0021 code there, truck running smooth with no issue but little rough on ideal and these codes pop on at slow speed, if Im going on highway then no codes for 300km. Please suggest, vct solenoid has been changed. He did timing twice and now he gave up.. lol looks like he is not too good enough to fix it, please help if you can. Thanks
If the cam timing was wrong, you probably would get other codes, like P034x, because the PCM would detect that the cam sensor signal was not coming in when it was expected to.
If you have locked out the cam phasers, that requires a custom tune to delete VCT. You can PM me if you want more information about that. If you don't tune the PCM, you'll get a light, codes P0011 and P0021, and the truck will run fine but it will be in a limp mode, down on power and gas mileage.
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
for anyone that is having phaser problems or timing codes i feel like ive worked on enough of these to be qualified to put my 2 cents out there. before you buy any parts, take the valve covers off, take a cap off the tower of each camshaft. if the cap dont show any signs of galling and there is not alot of sludge in the inside of engine you should be good to go. Look people the oil pump is the problem the phasers make noise because there is not enough oil pressure to supply them when they are in the unlocked position. its not gonna last forever but you can get the best service out of the engine by using the high volume oil pump from melling, its required that you use oem genuine ford phasers and chains and guides, dont use the plastic tensioners, use the tensioners from the 2v 5.4 or i believe cloyes makes a cast iron tensioner. put new motorcraft geniune solenoids in it. if you do all this it will last for a while. and for gods sake dont use any junk *** china aftermarket parts unless you want to do it again. you can always lock out the phasers but the bottom line is you will lose power on top end.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 15
Likes: 8
for anyone that is having phaser problems or timing codes i feel like ive worked on enough of these to be qualified to put my 2 cents out there. before you buy any parts, take the valve covers off, take a cap off the tower of each camshaft. if the cap dont show any signs of galling and there is not alot of sludge in the inside of engine you should be good to go. Look people the oil pump is the problem the phasers make noise because there is not enough oil pressure to supply them when they are in the unlocked position. its not gonna last forever but you can get the best service out of the engine by using the high volume oil pump from melling, its required that you use oem genuine ford phasers and chains and guides, dont use the plastic tensioners, use the tensioners from the 2v 5.4 or i believe cloyes makes a cast iron tensioner. put new motorcraft geniune solenoids in it. if you do all this it will last for a while. and for gods sake dont use any junk *** china aftermarket parts unless you want to do it again. you can always lock out the phasers but the bottom line is you will lose power on top end.
Locking out the phasers is not going to cost you any noticeable top end power. At WOT, the calibration doesn't even begin retarding the cam at all until over 3,000 RPM. And by 6,000 RPM it's retarding the cam about 12 degrees. If you miss out on this WOT cam timing retard (which is done for a different reason than the part throttle retard is done), you might cost yourself maybe 5 or 10 HP. Trust me, unless you're sitting on a dyno watching the numbers on the screen, you will NEVER feel a 10 HP loss at 6000 RPM on a 300 HP heavy truck. What you will feel is the terrific gains the truck makes at cruising RPMs at part throttle by locking out the phasers. It turns out motors don't LIKE having their cams retarded 30 to 40 degrees at 2000 - 3000 RPM. And when you quit doing that, the motor is going to reward you with more torque. The part throttle retarding of the cams is not done for power purposes like the WOT retard is done. Part throttle retard is all about emissions and gas mileage. Also if you lock out the phasers, you don't have to buy phasers or VCT solenoids. You can reuse your bad Ford phasers (as long as there isn't visual physical damage like a tone ring issue or something similar), and you don't have to buy any new VCT solenoids. It's a great deal.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
deleting the VCT out of the PCM
You will get codes P0011 and P0021 any time you lock out the cam phasers by installing VCT lockout blocks inside the phasers. The codes mean both banks are over-advanced COMPARED TO what the PCM is commanding them to do. So when the PCM commands the cams to retard, if they do not retard you will get these codes.
If the cam timing was wrong, you probably would get other codes, like P034x, because the PCM would detect that the cam sensor signal was not coming in when it was expected to.
If you have locked out the cam phasers, that requires a custom tune to delete VCT. You can PM me if you want more information about that. If you don't tune the PCM, you'll get a light, codes P0011 and P0021, and the truck will run fine but it will be in a limp mode, down on power and gas mileage.
If the cam timing was wrong, you probably would get other codes, like P034x, because the PCM would detect that the cam sensor signal was not coming in when it was expected to.
If you have locked out the cam phasers, that requires a custom tune to delete VCT. You can PM me if you want more information about that. If you don't tune the PCM, you'll get a light, codes P0011 and P0021, and the truck will run fine but it will be in a limp mode, down on power and gas mileage.
I am new To this. First time I rebuilt a 2005 Ford F-150 5.4 3v replaced everything but the camshafts itself. Did everything by the book even went through all the technic journals. It runs and idle fine until I take it on the road then the errors pop up. Did everything except but deleting the VCT out of the PCM, can I do that in myself. Where can I get more info on this PCM custom tune. And what tools and hardware do it I need.
Last edited by Johan1978; Jul 27, 2024 at 09:35 AM.
A dude playing a dude
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 16,813
Likes: 2,065
From: Germany
HI
I am new To this. First time I rebuilt a 2005 Ford F-150 5.4 3v replaced everything but the camshafts itself. Did everything by the book even went through all the technic journals. It runs and idle fine until I take it on the road then the errors pop up. Did everything except but deleting the VCT out of the PCM, can I do that in myself. Where can I get more info on this PCM custom tune. And what tools and hardware do it I need.
I am new To this. First time I rebuilt a 2005 Ford F-150 5.4 3v replaced everything but the camshafts itself. Did everything by the book even went through all the technic journals. It runs and idle fine until I take it on the road then the errors pop up. Did everything except but deleting the VCT out of the PCM, can I do that in myself. Where can I get more info on this PCM custom tune. And what tools and hardware do it I need.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 15
Likes: 8
Johan,
Please email me at pontisteve@earthlink.net, and I can explain the process and send you the info you need.
Best regards,
Steve
Drag Radial Performance
Please email me at pontisteve@earthlink.net, and I can explain the process and send you the info you need.
Best regards,
Steve
Drag Radial Performance
Junior Member
Joined: May 2026
Posts: 1
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