Braptor_28

1st post here, its gonna be a little long. Ive read some other amazing threads here about the VCT system for the 3V engine but o far have not been able to identify root cause for my issue. I dont want to just throw parts at it without knowing the root causen also because most of the engine IS new already. I have P0011 and P0021 on this engine (both cams over-advanced), all the timing drive including phasers, VCT solenoids, tensioners, etc.. have been replaced with OEM ford parts (plastic tensioners which I don't like, but should work). rebuilt 2k miles ago, actually the only original stuff re-used was block and crank so it's all fresh and all OEM Ford except oil pump which is Melling 10340

Attached is a data log of VCT parameters, You can see that the CAMERR on both banks goes way up under load to almost 60deg (engine seems to want full retard), the VCT solenoid duty cycle goes up to like 91% but it is not retarding for some reason and eventually it sets the error and disables VCT until next key-on. That all makes sense, but why is RCAM (requested retard) always hovering around zero? That doesn't make sense, if the cam error goes up and duty cycle goes up it must be requesting something, probably just an error getting the data in torque. I used a csv file for the custom PIDs I found on this site

oil pressures are low, which may be causing the VCT issue, but I want to think this through before replacing oil pump with high volume version (thinking either melling M340HV or ford M-6600-F46

Startup neutral: 80 psi 1k rpm
Cold idle neutral: 76 psi 800 rpm
Warm idle neutral: 14 psi 600 rpm
Warm idle In gear: 11-12 psi 500 rpm
At 2k RPM warm pressure is in 70's

This is confusing because it has a new oil oump, although not a high flow model (10340 should be stock flow but high pressure relief spring 80 psi). Perhaps it is tensioner seal leak causing low system restriction and thus low pressure.

here's the thing that i need help understanding: from my limited understanding of the VCT system, the oil pressure unlocks the locking pin and solenoid routes pressure to retard phaser. Even with low hot idle pressure, shouldn't the increased oil pressure with increased RPM be able to unlock the pin and retard the phaser? Since the phaser does not request retard at idle RPM is the oil pressure at idle really the issue? Could this be a stuck VCT solenoid? I'll pull one out today to check but since both banks are having the same issue, both solenoids would have to be stuck whereas oil pressure would affect both banks equally. Do I just put in an M340HV and ratcjeting cast iron tensioners and see what happens?

I really appreciate the contributions on this forum that helped me understand this system better, but I need some help here!

Braptor_28

So I just pulled the passenger side VCT solenoid and took it apart. Looks perfect. No debris in the screens and the valve slides smoothly. No wear whatsoever so I'm just gonna order the high volume oil pump and some cast iron tensioners. Any input on Melling M340HV vs Ford M-6600-F46?

F150Torqued

Take a look at my response to your post in https://www.f150forum.com/f12/5-4l-p...2/#post5722798

Shouldn't be posting the same issues under two threads. And The discussion probably fits better under your thread title here. Perhaps Moderators can consolidate them.

Braptor_28

So I found out my cam journal clearance is wayyy high, so probably the cause of low oil pressure and phasers not working due to oil pissing out of the cam journals. Here are measurements from drivers side with the front and rearmost cam cap just snugged down but not fully torqued:

endplay: 0.055"
radial play: .049"

so I don't know the specs on this engine but i know that's not a proper journal clearance.weird because the bearing surfaces look perfect. It's obvious previous owner who rebuilt it actually did as he said. All new except block and crank, had all receipts and such. About 2k miles on this setup apparently.

anyways, I think he bought the wrong cams for these heads, was there a revision for model year or different vehicle application of the 3V where cam journal diameter changed? I only have a dial caliper on hand, no mics but I am getting around 1.127" OD on the cam journals. No bore gauge to measure head/ cam caps but i am hoping there are some cams with a bigger journal because cyl head and caps are pretty new and look great, can still see cross-hatching from factory line bore I assume. Or the builder line bored it unnecessarily. Previous owner paid shop to build it and provided the OEM parts, i think he just bought the wrong cam, its not clearance due to wear. What radial clearance do i want here?

F150Torqued

I am almost certain .049" cam journal clearance - (probably even in ONE journal) would produce a loss of oil pressure in the head sufficient to prevent phasers from retarding with the VCT spool valve wide open.

That would explain CAMERRR tracking VCT Duty cycle. But I haven't reconciled with RCAM (PCM 'requested Retard') staying flat line while VCT Duty Cycle reads as though the PCM is trying to retard cams...! Makes NO sense. And I would definitely be for sorting out what's going on there as part of the overall effort before spending massive amounts of money.

I place lots of faith in Torque Pro. All it is doing is reading a digital stream of data sent by the PCM in an orderly request / response method. When the contents of RCAM is requested by Torque Pro, the PCM simply goes out and reads the contents of a 'memory location' (Identified as PID 16CD and 091C respectively). That is the designated 'mail box' in which it stores the results of its calculation(s) to determine how much retard it desires at the instant.

If Torque is reading the other parameters correctly, or without error - WHAT happened to RCAM?

One other thing - regarding cam replacement. You did not mention year. You DID mentioned the PO had changed cams and they may not be correct as their was a mid year change. You are correct 2004 - 2005. Don't know about the journal size, but the cams are ground on a different lobe angle, and must be match with the crankshaft. (If not, I'm not sure you wouldn't have valve contact - or at least horrible running, if at all). The attached might shed some light on this.

Braptor_28

Does anyone have experience with the dura bond FA-13 cam bearings? (especially if you know a place that can line bore the heads for them). that would keep me from needing to buy a new head. Dura-bond sells a quick bore system where you can use a drill to cut them, but it is over $600 and i will probably only need it once, cant justify it unless someone else keeds their journals fixed f0r cheap 😉

serve.mann

im having the same issue, my mechanic did timing job but p0011 and p0021 code there, truck running smooth with no issue but little rough on ideal and these codes pop on at slow speed, if I’m going on highway then no codes for 300km. Please suggest, vct solenoid has been changed.

Braptor_28

I ended up locking them out, should have done it from the start. Think about it this way, if you lock it out the money you save on new phasers can almost buy you some upgrade camshafts, which would require a lockout anyways In hindsight I shouldnt have bought new phasers at all just lockout and do cams