Thoughts on the new 3.0 Ford Diesel...
The following 2 users liked this post by todd92:
AricsFX (08-02-2017),
GreenandGold831 (08-02-2017)
08-02-2017, 05:00 PM
#52
Originally Posted by seadragon
I just had my 2012 VW Golf TDI bought back by Volkswagen due to the diesel scandal. I liked the diesel overall and the mileage was insanely good. But the DPF was a pain when it kicked in. Strong smell of diesel and the engine would run rough. There was no rhyme or reason as to when it would kick in. If it happened to be doing its thing when we got home, the fans would ramp up to full and the smell of diesel fumes was quite strong.
Originally Posted by J15
I had an F-150 with the 5.0 and now own an F-250 with the 6.7. I seriously doubt the 3.0L diesel will be worth the expense. You're probably going to be under 300HP/500TQ. That's going to be a horrifically slow truck on the highway and feel sluggish in most normal driving conditions. There's no point in bothering with it when you can get the 3.5L EB that puts out about the same torque and way more HP for a lot less money. If you need more torque than the EB can put out, skip the half ton segment and get yourself a 6.7. If that's not in the budget new, buy a year old truck with low miles for $20k off sticker.
Diesels are expensive to own and maintain. Anyone that tells you differently is lying or hasn't had enough time as an owner to know the truth. Oil changes are well over $100 even if you do it yourself. You'll need to do a $60 fuel filter change every other oil change. The DPF will cripple your fuel economy when it kicks in, cutting your MPG average in half for as long as 30-60 minutes at a time. You'll need to replenish your DEF on a regular basis, effectively inflating your cost per gallon of fuel. Unless you do a full delete, the EGR will be poisoning your engine with soot and increasing the odds of costly repairs further down the road. While properly configured diesel trucks can be a pure joy to drive, it's really not worth it getting the small displacement diesels. You have all the expense and inconvenience without the performance. Buy the EB instead.
Diesels are expensive to own and maintain. Anyone that tells you differently is lying or hasn't had enough time as an owner to know the truth. Oil changes are well over $100 even if you do it yourself. You'll need to do a $60 fuel filter change every other oil change. The DPF will cripple your fuel economy when it kicks in, cutting your MPG average in half for as long as 30-60 minutes at a time. You'll need to replenish your DEF on a regular basis, effectively inflating your cost per gallon of fuel. Unless you do a full delete, the EGR will be poisoning your engine with soot and increasing the odds of costly repairs further down the road. While properly configured diesel trucks can be a pure joy to drive, it's really not worth it getting the small displacement diesels. You have all the expense and inconvenience without the performance. Buy the EB instead.
Same story like a few others here, had my VW tdi buy back last month. Loved the car, had zero dpf lag (2011 no adblue urea injection) zero problems and great power and mileage for a 2.0l. For a diesel VW was the best IMHO.
My MB sprinter van is a diesel and it's an absolute nightmare to maintain, I'm selling it now because the cost of operation/maintenance to savings ratio is far out of wack. It's definitely not saving me any money or doing me any favors. I love the size of the van but the problems with all the emissions, and swirl valves via the EGR system are ridiculous. Totally over-engineered to hit a ppm emissions benchmark that's quite unrealistic, hence all the bolt on soot mitigating crap.
The diesel market is unfortunately extremely stifled by bureaucracy, bad PR, and blind snowflake hatred. Longer term, diesels are unfortunately becoming phased out to boot. Europe wants them gone by 2040.
Take it from someone who owns and respects what Diesel engines are great for. Most consumers are better off without it, because the politically correct world simply hates diesels...
What should be a relatively low maintenance engine design to own has basically been sabotaged.
Last edited by Especial86; 08-02-2017 at 05:06 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Especial86:
Aj06bolt12r (08-02-2017),
toostroked (08-02-2017)
08-02-2017, 05:15 PM
#53
Senior Member
I never understood the circlejerk for diesels in half ton or below trucks. Ford doesn't even sound all that excited to offer it and it will be hard pressed to be a better option over the 3.5.
08-02-2017, 10:54 PM
#54
I remember when everyone said the EcoBoost engines would be unreliable, too costly to repair, too complex, etc. Funny how that turned out...
Ford has been selling diesel powered smaller vehicles in other countries for years.
The Ranger is available with a diesel in Australia, as is a larger SUV.
Ford Ranger
Ford Everest SUV
Even if the only reason Ford wants to bring them to the US is because people think they want them, why not ?
If you want to tow a heavy load with the EcoBoost, you have to run super unleaded (per the Owner's Manual). That makes the fuel costs very much in line with diesel, at least here anyway. Now factor in that the diesel will get better MPGs when towing than the EcoBoost will and an argument can be made for diesel powered 1/2 ton trucks. Diesel engines tend to last longer than gas engines too - something to consider if you keep your vehicles for a long time.
I am curious and interested to see what they come up with. I would not have believed the new Raptor could move like it does with a turbo V-6 had I not driven it.
Ford has been selling diesel powered smaller vehicles in other countries for years.
The Ranger is available with a diesel in Australia, as is a larger SUV.
Ford Ranger
Ford Everest SUV
Even if the only reason Ford wants to bring them to the US is because people think they want them, why not ?
If you want to tow a heavy load with the EcoBoost, you have to run super unleaded (per the Owner's Manual). That makes the fuel costs very much in line with diesel, at least here anyway. Now factor in that the diesel will get better MPGs when towing than the EcoBoost will and an argument can be made for diesel powered 1/2 ton trucks. Diesel engines tend to last longer than gas engines too - something to consider if you keep your vehicles for a long time.
I am curious and interested to see what they come up with. I would not have believed the new Raptor could move like it does with a turbo V-6 had I not driven it.
08-02-2017, 11:00 PM
#55
I remember when everyone said the EcoBoost engines would be unreliable, too costly to repair, too complex, etc. Funny how that turned out...
Ford has been selling diesel powered smaller vehicles in other countries for years.
The Ranger is available with a diesel in Australia, as is a larger SUV.
Ford Ranger
Ford Everest SUV
Even if the only reason Ford wants to bring them to the US is because people think they want them, why not ?
If you want to tow a heavy load with the EcoBoost, you have to run super unleaded (per the Owner's Manual). That makes the fuel costs very much in line with diesel, at least here anyway. Now factor in that the diesel will get better MPGs when towing than the EcoBoost will and an argument can be made for diesel powered 1/2 ton trucks. Diesel engines tend to last longer than gas engines too - something to consider if you keep your vehicles for a long time.
I am curious and interested to see what they come up with. I would not have believed the new Raptor could move like it does with a turbo V-6 had I not driven it.
Ford has been selling diesel powered smaller vehicles in other countries for years.
The Ranger is available with a diesel in Australia, as is a larger SUV.
Ford Ranger
Ford Everest SUV
Even if the only reason Ford wants to bring them to the US is because people think they want them, why not ?
If you want to tow a heavy load with the EcoBoost, you have to run super unleaded (per the Owner's Manual). That makes the fuel costs very much in line with diesel, at least here anyway. Now factor in that the diesel will get better MPGs when towing than the EcoBoost will and an argument can be made for diesel powered 1/2 ton trucks. Diesel engines tend to last longer than gas engines too - something to consider if you keep your vehicles for a long time.
I am curious and interested to see what they come up with. I would not have believed the new Raptor could move like it does with a turbo V-6 had I not driven it.
08-03-2017, 06:43 AM
#56
My point was that everyone should stop poo-pooing it until we all get to see what they come up with. Non-Ford folks have poo-pooed EcoBoost technology for years but most have started to realize that it has been refined and is quite reliable and capable - even if they still don't like it.
08-03-2017, 07:35 AM
#57
Senile member
Ford's delay in bringing this to market is surely a result of all the emissions scandals going on.
Here's my take:
Dodge ecodiesel owners love 'em in the 1500. Smooth torque delivery, good power, etc. I drove the Titan XD with the cummins, and that thing had excellent power.
I do not see how a 275hp, 450ft-lb diesel in a half-ton truck will feel sluggish? I remember driving a 285hp 5.3L GMC sierra and it didn't feel sluggish, and probably had 150ft-lbs less torque than this ford diesel will have.
HOWEVER: with the DPF stuff, the #1 thing I hear from all modern diesel owners is, first thing, get rid of the DPF system, eliminate it with a full turbo-back exhaust. Increases efficiency and reliability massively. Why? Well of course, we want cleaner air to breathe, so all these filthy diesels must reduce particulate emissions, right? Let's not count all the pollutants being driven across the pacific from China to our air (yes, it happens), but it's our brand new F250's that are polluting the air so badly.
SO, my guess will be some of the first aftermarket parts will be elimination of those DPF systems/particulate filters. I'd do it.
Now, that all being said.........I love my 3.5EB and don't think i'd pay a $3k premium just to spend $1 more per gallon on fuel and get 4mpg better on the highway.
Here's my take:
Dodge ecodiesel owners love 'em in the 1500. Smooth torque delivery, good power, etc. I drove the Titan XD with the cummins, and that thing had excellent power.
I do not see how a 275hp, 450ft-lb diesel in a half-ton truck will feel sluggish? I remember driving a 285hp 5.3L GMC sierra and it didn't feel sluggish, and probably had 150ft-lbs less torque than this ford diesel will have.
HOWEVER: with the DPF stuff, the #1 thing I hear from all modern diesel owners is, first thing, get rid of the DPF system, eliminate it with a full turbo-back exhaust. Increases efficiency and reliability massively. Why? Well of course, we want cleaner air to breathe, so all these filthy diesels must reduce particulate emissions, right? Let's not count all the pollutants being driven across the pacific from China to our air (yes, it happens), but it's our brand new F250's that are polluting the air so badly.
SO, my guess will be some of the first aftermarket parts will be elimination of those DPF systems/particulate filters. I'd do it.
Now, that all being said.........I love my 3.5EB and don't think i'd pay a $3k premium just to spend $1 more per gallon on fuel and get 4mpg better on the highway.
08-03-2017, 07:37 AM
#58
US emissions are killing the beauty of diesel engines. While they sometimes have more "particulates of bad things" per gallon, they have far fewer particulates per mile than gasoline.
The following users liked this post:
chimmike (08-03-2017)
08-03-2017, 07:57 AM
#59
Senile member
You may have unrealistic expectations of fuel economy and savings with the diesel. Even my tuned and deleted 6.7 drops from the low 20mpg range to about 13mpg when towing a heavier trailer. The EB probably wouldn't be far behind. Even if it were, you aren't going to recover the thousands of dollars spent on initial purchase price and the large differential in maintenance costs. The average owner probably trades in too often to see a difference in high mileage durability. The 3.5EB simply delivers too much performance at a reasonable price point to justify the diesel.
08-03-2017, 08:41 AM
#60
all jokes aside, getting fuel on your hands or clothes from something as simple as just trying to fill up the tank is a seriously annoying side effect of owning a diesel. Now I have to carry around wipes and hand cleaner just to try and clean myself up so I don't smell like a mechanic in a meeting with someone who wants to discuss something that costs millions of dollars. Or your kids need immediate attention inside the car while your pumping, and you havent cleaned your hands, and now its all over the door handle, interior, your kids, their clothes, the car seat etc.
5.9 cummins (mostly stock) is gutless though, in comparison to anything in today's world. Not surprising that the mileage would be there like a 7.3, they are both turds.
I would agree with the general consensus though, the 3.5EB motor is currently the setup to beat in a half ton truck. There's no diesel drama, there's really no drama at all except for plugs (potentially), its fast when you need it unloaded, the mpg is good if you stay off the pedal, and the tq band is low enough to make towing half ton loads a breeze. But it lacks the performance thrills, you cant really do much with them and a lot of people don't like the exhaust note. So I think the diesel has more appeal from that side, in general people like the sound of a (deleted) diesel, and the lower tq curve, and the huge gains from tuning. I'm curious to see how it shakes out.
I think the main reason ford HAS to do it is because the others are doing it, if everyone else is going to offer diesel options in the mid and half ton market, they have to become a competitor as well. And it will help them get to the mpg requirements, even if reliability sucks for owners (the ecodiesel ram).
5.9 cummins (mostly stock) is gutless though, in comparison to anything in today's world. Not surprising that the mileage would be there like a 7.3, they are both turds.
I would agree with the general consensus though, the 3.5EB motor is currently the setup to beat in a half ton truck. There's no diesel drama, there's really no drama at all except for plugs (potentially), its fast when you need it unloaded, the mpg is good if you stay off the pedal, and the tq band is low enough to make towing half ton loads a breeze. But it lacks the performance thrills, you cant really do much with them and a lot of people don't like the exhaust note. So I think the diesel has more appeal from that side, in general people like the sound of a (deleted) diesel, and the lower tq curve, and the huge gains from tuning. I'm curious to see how it shakes out.
I think the main reason ford HAS to do it is because the others are doing it, if everyone else is going to offer diesel options in the mid and half ton market, they have to become a competitor as well. And it will help them get to the mpg requirements, even if reliability sucks for owners (the ecodiesel ram).