Sound deadening/Dynamat-2016 F150
05-23-2020, 01:50 AM
#101
I've always wanted to do this...but I don't think I can do a multi day project any time soon. If it was a single day job, I'd be much more likely to actually do it. I'll just have to dream about this one. Maybe I can try doing a door at a time during my lunches
05-12-2021, 07:03 PM
#102
Senior Member
I just went through this, I did the entire cabin, from firewall to rear wall, doors, roof and floor.
I have no allegiance to a particular brand whatsoever and I believe in buying best of breed at the most economic price point. Having said so...
Dont use dynamat, its expensive and its crap for what it is. The butyl will melt and the product itself is a pain to work with. It'll cut you up, badly.
When talking about sound abatement, you have to address the two sources of noise pollution: airborne noise and vibration noise.
Dynamat et al are CLD, constant layer dampening, and they resolve the noises caused by rattling/vibrations/etc. The third layer addresses airborn noises, such as air leaks, road noise, etc. Those are addressed by dense absorbing materials.
In between, you have layer 2, which is a decoupler. This helps physically separate the CLD from the sound absorption and eliminates the transference of resonant frequencies which enhance the noise.
Layer 2 is a CCF (closed cell foam) that physically separates the leftover vibrating panels (dampened by your CLD) from your sound absorption material.
For CLD, I used noico 50 mil from amazon. It is OUTSTANDING material, very easy to work with, and the butyl is miles ahead in quality than dynamat is. I also used fatman in strategic places, and its almost as easy to use as Noico. Noico is extremely economical and your TCO is hundreds of dollars less than any other material (dynamat, fatmat, roadkill, etc)
I covered the entire floor, the roof, the rear panel, as much of the firewall I could without yanking the dash out, and the interior AND exterior panels of all four doors with Noico 50 Mil.
On the roof and doors I used ESP Low-e EZ-Cool Car Insulation for a decoupler, which is a 1/8" thick CCF (waterproof and mold proof) sandwiched between to sheets of fire resistant foil.
The third layer used on the roof, doors and rear wall was 3M thinsulate SM600L, which has the capability of absorbing frequencies from 500 Hz to 4K Hz on a third octave band center frequency. The material has a weight of 642 g/m^2 (extremely light) and expands to a thickness of 1.65 in., with a density of 15.3 lb/ft^3.
In other words, it has a density less than a pound per cubic foot, expands to a thickness of 1.65 inches and weights 2.10 ounces per square foot. It is fire proof, has an R-value of 5.2 and has an absorption rate (using ASTM E1050) of 95% of all frequencies between 500 Hz and 4K Hz of 21 dB.
For the floor, I used CLD, followed by the same CCF, and then used 1lb/ft^2 mass loaded vinyl. Its the same material used in professional recording studios and as such, it is extremely heavy and absorbs (again using ASTM E1050) all frequencies from 55 Hz up to 5.5K Hz with an efficiency coefficient of 92%.
What does all this mumbo-jumbo mean?
1) Spent 6 days doing all this work
2) Materials cost was around $550
3) My truck now has a constant internal temperature of 71 degrees F +/- 4 deg when the AC is engaged with a temperature measured at the center dash vent of 67 deg F (max AC engaged). The exterior ambient temperature was 93 deg F with 31% relative humidity. Using an optris LS laser thermometer, the surface temperature was measured of 97 deg F on the driver-side door.
After achieving thermal equilibrium, the AC was turned off and the temperature measured constantly with a Flir/Extech RH series Hygro-Thermometer with IR Thermometer. After 18 minutes, the temperature had climbed to 77 deg, and after 33 minutes, the temperature had climbed to 80 degrees. I quit measuring after 40 minutes since the temperature never climbed past 80 deg. I will test heat retention once we start getting snow and ice. Should be interesting.
4) Using an old FLIR/Extech 40K series SPL meter, the interior SPL is now measured at 64 db driving on IH 20 at 75 MPH using OE Bridgestone Dueler Aleza P275/55r20 from the center console position. The SPL measurements had a variation of +/- 1 dB as measured from the front passenger position and the rear driver and rear passenger side position.
TL;DR: Spent 550 dlls in materials, gutted the interior of the truck and spent 6 days doing it. My interior temperature never goes above 80 degrees with the AC off with a high 90s temp outside and the sound meter never went above 64 dB while doing 75 on the interstate. I am better sound and thermally insulated than a Lexus LS600 and Merc S class
I have no allegiance to a particular brand whatsoever and I believe in buying best of breed at the most economic price point. Having said so...
Dont use dynamat, its expensive and its crap for what it is. The butyl will melt and the product itself is a pain to work with. It'll cut you up, badly.
When talking about sound abatement, you have to address the two sources of noise pollution: airborne noise and vibration noise.
Dynamat et al are CLD, constant layer dampening, and they resolve the noises caused by rattling/vibrations/etc. The third layer addresses airborn noises, such as air leaks, road noise, etc. Those are addressed by dense absorbing materials.
In between, you have layer 2, which is a decoupler. This helps physically separate the CLD from the sound absorption and eliminates the transference of resonant frequencies which enhance the noise.
Layer 2 is a CCF (closed cell foam) that physically separates the leftover vibrating panels (dampened by your CLD) from your sound absorption material.
For CLD, I used noico 50 mil from amazon. It is OUTSTANDING material, very easy to work with, and the butyl is miles ahead in quality than dynamat is. I also used fatman in strategic places, and its almost as easy to use as Noico. Noico is extremely economical and your TCO is hundreds of dollars less than any other material (dynamat, fatmat, roadkill, etc)
I covered the entire floor, the roof, the rear panel, as much of the firewall I could without yanking the dash out, and the interior AND exterior panels of all four doors with Noico 50 Mil.
On the roof and doors I used ESP Low-e EZ-Cool Car Insulation for a decoupler, which is a 1/8" thick CCF (waterproof and mold proof) sandwiched between to sheets of fire resistant foil.
The third layer used on the roof, doors and rear wall was 3M thinsulate SM600L, which has the capability of absorbing frequencies from 500 Hz to 4K Hz on a third octave band center frequency. The material has a weight of 642 g/m^2 (extremely light) and expands to a thickness of 1.65 in., with a density of 15.3 lb/ft^3.
In other words, it has a density less than a pound per cubic foot, expands to a thickness of 1.65 inches and weights 2.10 ounces per square foot. It is fire proof, has an R-value of 5.2 and has an absorption rate (using ASTM E1050) of 95% of all frequencies between 500 Hz and 4K Hz of 21 dB.
For the floor, I used CLD, followed by the same CCF, and then used 1lb/ft^2 mass loaded vinyl. Its the same material used in professional recording studios and as such, it is extremely heavy and absorbs (again using ASTM E1050) all frequencies from 55 Hz up to 5.5K Hz with an efficiency coefficient of 92%.
What does all this mumbo-jumbo mean?
1) Spent 6 days doing all this work
2) Materials cost was around $550
3) My truck now has a constant internal temperature of 71 degrees F +/- 4 deg when the AC is engaged with a temperature measured at the center dash vent of 67 deg F (max AC engaged). The exterior ambient temperature was 93 deg F with 31% relative humidity. Using an optris LS laser thermometer, the surface temperature was measured of 97 deg F on the driver-side door.
After achieving thermal equilibrium, the AC was turned off and the temperature measured constantly with a Flir/Extech RH series Hygro-Thermometer with IR Thermometer. After 18 minutes, the temperature had climbed to 77 deg, and after 33 minutes, the temperature had climbed to 80 degrees. I quit measuring after 40 minutes since the temperature never climbed past 80 deg. I will test heat retention once we start getting snow and ice. Should be interesting.
4) Using an old FLIR/Extech 40K series SPL meter, the interior SPL is now measured at 64 db driving on IH 20 at 75 MPH using OE Bridgestone Dueler Aleza P275/55r20 from the center console position. The SPL measurements had a variation of +/- 1 dB as measured from the front passenger position and the rear driver and rear passenger side position.
TL;DR: Spent 550 dlls in materials, gutted the interior of the truck and spent 6 days doing it. My interior temperature never goes above 80 degrees with the AC off with a high 90s temp outside and the sound meter never went above 64 dB while doing 75 on the interstate. I am better sound and thermally insulated than a Lexus LS600 and Merc S class
My goal is to do my whole truck, but I just want to start with the doors. Is the sequence this?
***
Exterior of door
Noico 50 mil
ESP Low-e EZ-Cool Car Insulation
3M thinsulate SM600L (fluffy stuff toward the inside of the cab)
Inside of door
***
Is all that correct? And, if so, how do I secure all that stuff to one another? Would some 3m spray adhesive work?
05-12-2021, 07:08 PM
#103
I hope you all don't mind me resurrecting a dormant thread. But, in all my research for sound deadening this seems to be the most-well researched project. Plus, this TexasFording guy is a fellow Futurama fan so that gives me a good feeling about his posts. But, I'm not sure I 100% understand so I want to throw a question out there?
My goal is to do my whole truck, but I just want to start with the doors. Is the sequence this?
***
Exterior of door
Noico 50 mil
ESP Low-e EZ-Cool Car Insulation
3M thinsulate SM600L (fluffy stuff toward the inside of the cab)
Inside of door
***
Is all that correct? And, if so, how do I secure all that stuff to one another? Would some 3m spray adhesive work?
My goal is to do my whole truck, but I just want to start with the doors. Is the sequence this?
***
Exterior of door
Noico 50 mil
ESP Low-e EZ-Cool Car Insulation
3M thinsulate SM600L (fluffy stuff toward the inside of the cab)
Inside of door
***
Is all that correct? And, if so, how do I secure all that stuff to one another? Would some 3m spray adhesive work?
05-12-2021, 07:22 PM
#104
Senior Member
I think you are over doing it. Noico has 2 products, a butyl sound deadener a d the foam decouplers. Put th Noico butyl first, then the foam decoupler. When you install the door speakers use some type of foam kit around them as well. I only used thinsukate in my headliner, not in my doors. I used mass loaded vinyl on the floor. Thinsulate would probably work great in the doors that is basically what appliance manufacturers use to quiet fo n dishwashers a s they jack up the price for a quiet dishwasher
I understood the ESP Low-e EZ-Cool served as the foam decoupler. Is that correct?
So, are you saying that, in my doors, I should only be using two layers and not three?
And, I'm with you about the foam around the speakers. It is in my plans.
05-12-2021, 07:29 PM
#105
Thank you for the response.
I understood the ESP Low-e EZ-Cool served as the foam decoupler. Is that correct?
So, are you saying that, in my doors, I should only be using two layers and not three?
And, I'm with you about the foam around the speakers. It is in my plans.
I understood the ESP Low-e EZ-Cool served as the foam decoupler. Is that correct?
So, are you saying that, in my doors, I should only be using two layers and not three?
And, I'm with you about the foam around the speakers. It is in my plans.
The following users liked this post:
Bret Linden (05-12-2021)
08-25-2021, 02:42 PM
#107
Me thinks Gr Peter might be a bot.
Last edited by SPOAT; 08-25-2021 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Spammer getting.
The following users liked this post:
OCMike (08-25-2021)
08-25-2021, 02:49 PM
#108
TOTM Sept. '18
iTrader: (1)
07-15-2022, 07:12 PM
#109
In my case, I did it for an audio build so yes. I absolutely think it's worth it. Have you driven your truck in rain and heard the roof or floor? All that noise you hear, pinging, etc is gone. Silent. Made a tremendous difference in cabin quietness all the way around just in normal driving too. But it's not just the quietness factor. It's also that proper sound treatment eliminates panel rattles. Everything fits together tighter. I mean the body and frame of an ls Tahoe vs a platinum Cadillac Escalade are virtually the same, it's the sound treatments that make the difference when you look past the visual differences.
07-15-2022, 08:58 PM
#110
Sorry to revive this thread, I'm currently doing this now. I like how quiet my '19 f150 was to start but am putting some decent morel speakers in and want to maximize benefit. When deadening for audio, did you pack the cavity of your door with the ez cool and thinsulate? Or did you sandwich those 2 things between door and door panel.
