Saving $468 on a catch can
07-13-2018, 02:28 PM
#22
Veteran, retired Navy..
.JEGS Air Oil Separator 4-1/2" Tall x 1-3/4" Diameter (NOT including fittings)
Air Oil Separator ( part # 555-52205 )( $ 48.99 )
- 4-1/2" Tall x 1-3/4" Diameter (NOT including fittings)
- Made in the USA
Includes: - (1) Mounting Bracket
- (2) Self Tapping Screws
- (2) 1/4" NPT x 3/8" Hose Barb Fittings
07-13-2018, 11:15 PM
#23
No need to worry. They may have their place in high performance applications, but not so much in a street driven truck.
I'm not sure how well this would work in a truck engine. Your return line back into the crankcase would have to have some kind of checkvalve so that at higher RPM, or cruising speed, you're not venting fumes back into the crankcase from that return line (there will be gas/partially burned fumes even after the oil is separated in the de-oiler). But then that valve needs to be spring loaded to open up when engine is off, but that means it will also open when at lower speeds or at idle when the intake pressure is lower than the crankcase pressure, and you'll effectively be bypassing your de-oiler/catch can's filter/mesh/baffles since that drain comes after it.
The mechanics of a return line simply don't make sense to me, unless there's some other device that manages the drain tube, or maybe it's an electronic valve that stay closed when the engine is running? I don't see how this would work.
You beat me to it, and you are of course correct
I'm not sure how well this would work in a truck engine. Your return line back into the crankcase would have to have some kind of checkvalve so that at higher RPM, or cruising speed, you're not venting fumes back into the crankcase from that return line (there will be gas/partially burned fumes even after the oil is separated in the de-oiler). But then that valve needs to be spring loaded to open up when engine is off, but that means it will also open when at lower speeds or at idle when the intake pressure is lower than the crankcase pressure, and you'll effectively be bypassing your de-oiler/catch can's filter/mesh/baffles since that drain comes after it.
The mechanics of a return line simply don't make sense to me, unless there's some other device that manages the drain tube, or maybe it's an electronic valve that stay closed when the engine is running? I don't see how this would work.
You beat me to it, and you are of course correct
07-14-2018, 07:13 PM
#25
I'm thinking one thing guys miss in this debate is what circumstances drive need for catch cans. Seems to be too much debate along the lines of Ford is flawed vs. Ford is perfect. The Motus also doesn't need one for normal use, however, at full throttle and higher rpm, the engine has almost no vacuum to pull on the case and blowby is at a maximum. My problem surfaced when going for a speed record where it had to sustain full throttle for an entire mile at a time. That doesn't sound like much at first, but give it a try and a mile becomes a long time. Under these circumstances the factory design for PCV is no longer functioning as intended and can result in excess oil in the intake manifold. BTW, the bike in the photo now owns world fastest production bagger at 163 in the standing mile, luggage and all.
07-14-2018, 10:02 PM
#26
Air does flow, just very little. Same for oil. Difference being it can sit for days while the oil slowly drains out a drop at a time. As compared to the vacuum signal air or case blowby the volumes aren't significant. Unlike the hotly debated Ford engines, this motor makes enough blowby to be an issue at high rpm and full throttle.
I'm thinking one thing guys miss in this debate is what circumstances drive need for catch cans. Seems to be too much debate along the lines of Ford is flawed vs. Ford is perfect. The Motus also doesn't need one for normal use, however, at full throttle and higher rpm, the engine has almost no vacuum to pull on the case and blowby is at a maximum. My problem surfaced when going for a speed record where it had to sustain full throttle for an entire mile at a time. That doesn't sound like much at first, but give it a try and a mile becomes a long time. Under these circumstances the factory design for PCV is no longer functioning as intended and can result in excess oil in the intake manifold. BTW, the bike in the photo now owns world fastest production bagger at 163 in the standing mile, luggage and all.
I'm thinking one thing guys miss in this debate is what circumstances drive need for catch cans. Seems to be too much debate along the lines of Ford is flawed vs. Ford is perfect. The Motus also doesn't need one for normal use, however, at full throttle and higher rpm, the engine has almost no vacuum to pull on the case and blowby is at a maximum. My problem surfaced when going for a speed record where it had to sustain full throttle for an entire mile at a time. That doesn't sound like much at first, but give it a try and a mile becomes a long time. Under these circumstances the factory design for PCV is no longer functioning as intended and can result in excess oil in the intake manifold. BTW, the bike in the photo now owns world fastest production bagger at 163 in the standing mile, luggage and all.
You are correct. There is a need for catch cans, in certain circumstances such as in racing where the engine is running at high RPM under extreme pressures where blowby is an issue, but for the average everyday run of the mill daily driver, there really isn't one and while it will get oil and water in it, thats just the nature of the beast as the extended lines to put the can at the front of the truck cools the gasses and of course, it will catch it, but in most cases, it isn't necessary. Didn't need one for my 14, it ran great for 63K miles and was always clean, and 48K on my 16, and it too is clean. Those who get mucked up Intercoolers just aren't driving them hard enough to get the gunk out. I figured that out with 4K on my 14 when it stumbled when passing and set a CEL, I babied the truck too much and under perfect conditions got too much condensation in the IC, and ingested it passing a truck, since then I stopped babying the engine and just gave it hell every day at least once, and it never happened again.
07-14-2018, 10:17 PM
#27
Air does flow, just very little. Same for oil. Difference being it can sit for days while the oil slowly drains out a drop at a time. As compared to the vacuum signal air or case blowby the volumes aren't significant. Unlike the hotly debated Ford engines, this motor makes enough blowby to be an issue at high rpm and full throttle.
I'm thinking one thing guys miss in this debate is what circumstances drive need for catch cans. Seems to be too much debate along the lines of Ford is flawed vs. Ford is perfect. The Motus also doesn't need one for normal use, however, at full throttle and higher rpm, the engine has almost no vacuum to pull on the case and blowby is at a maximum. My problem surfaced when going for a speed record where it had to sustain full throttle for an entire mile at a time. That doesn't sound like much at first, but give it a try and a mile becomes a long time. Under these circumstances the factory design for PCV is no longer functioning as intended and can result in excess oil in the intake manifold. BTW, the bike in the photo now owns world fastest production bagger at 163 in the standing mile, luggage and all.
I'm thinking one thing guys miss in this debate is what circumstances drive need for catch cans. Seems to be too much debate along the lines of Ford is flawed vs. Ford is perfect. The Motus also doesn't need one for normal use, however, at full throttle and higher rpm, the engine has almost no vacuum to pull on the case and blowby is at a maximum. My problem surfaced when going for a speed record where it had to sustain full throttle for an entire mile at a time. That doesn't sound like much at first, but give it a try and a mile becomes a long time. Under these circumstances the factory design for PCV is no longer functioning as intended and can result in excess oil in the intake manifold. BTW, the bike in the photo now owns world fastest production bagger at 163 in the standing mile, luggage and all.
07-14-2018, 10:33 PM
#28
Senior Member
I'm thinking you are misunderstanding the question. The oil return I am speaking of is a gravity drain from the catch can bottom to the crank case. In no way tied into the oiling system. My question remains why the automotive catch can systems are manual drain vs allowing the material it catches to return to the crank case after engine shut down. Trying to get clarity in the conversation, no need for the snarky do what you want comment.
07-15-2018, 08:48 AM
#29
gotch.....the process i couldnt remember is called thermal cycling. Anyway you wouldnt want to have all that crap go back into your crank case. Fuel dilution is the biggest issue with the ecoboost crank oil. I have had many oa's done by blackstone that show way too much fuel above 5000mile oci's. So blackstone suggested oci's of no more than 5000. I highly doubt all the water will be evaporated or boiled off in the crank either. I have seen what comes out of my full race catch can and i wouldnt want that going back into my crank case. To each his own though afterall its your truck.
Last edited by mikeinatlanta; 07-15-2018 at 08:51 AM.
07-15-2018, 10:07 AM
#30
Senior Member
Was going to buy the UPR catch can system for my 2016 EB. Probably not needed but couldn't hurt right? Truck has 16000 miles on it and I love getting into the throttle. Ebay has 15% off today so the catch can, 2 pro series check valves and hi flow pvc replacement would come out to $468. Decided to pull the pvc tube that people show oul puddles in. Mine is almost completely bone dry so I took a Qtip and swabbed the inside of the air intake port. See the results. I don't need one and now don't think I even want one for peace of mind.