KubotaB

..

Kingofpasadena

Let's not forget that Porsche did it first. Lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohner-Porsche

odd-6

I wouldn't be interested until it had at least 400km range. Also not sure the idea of electric motors at the wheels is a good idea for a 4x4 pickup that will pound washboard roads and constantly have gravel/mud thrown at them, but I use my truck harder than most.

If it was as capable as my current truck is now I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. Considering all my hydro comes from dams, hard to argue it's not a clean source of power.

acdii

Battery technology and Energy management is just not there yet for an electric truck. When you really think about it, today's pickups getting 20+ MPG are pound for pound as efficient as a Hybrid getting 40 MPG. When put to the task for actually towing, imagine how quickly the batteries would drain when faced with a 6% grade, a 6000 pound trailer and the drag from 80 sqft of frontal area. If a powerful 400 HP 400Tq engine gets 4 MPG doing it, how far will batteries last? not long. Not only that, but batteries that are drained quickly, such as those that would be used in a high output application, would heat up really fast and batteries used for this type of application do not like heat, in fact, if they get hot enough, they ignite.

In a PHEV like the Cmax or Fusion, the battery pack weighs in at 300+ or more, and is good for 20 miles, but that is on a light sedan. You would need at least 4 times the amount of battery for a pickup in order to get any range out of it, and an Atkinson cycle engine to power it.

A more practical approach would be a diesel genset like what is used on locomotives. They run at optimum speeds for best fuel efficiency and emissions, and spin a generator to provide power to the traction motors. A small 4 cylinder TD with a high output generator could power the truck with plenty of go power while getting very good fuel economy. A 3 phase motor like what Tesla uses could be center mounted and with a transfer case, provide 4WD. It would need an enhanced cooling system to keep the motor and generator cool, but I can see it easily climbing a steep grade while towing a house.

Until battery and power generation can reach the levels needed for a true electric truck, I just don't see the practicality of it. EV are no greener than regular cars, it takes energy to make energy and the losses to charge batteries, and what the return is are too far apart still. For example, Electric RC planes. To power a plane with electric to equal that of a glow or gas motor, you have to size everything correctly. Lets say a plane that would use a 4 stroke gas engine of .70ci, would require a 60 amp motor, and 4S Lipo. On a 12 ounce tank of gas, that plane could fly for an hour. On a 4000mah battery, that same plane flies for 7-10 minutes tops. Then the battery has to be recharged and that can take an hour or more. Now Lipo used in Hybrids are top of the line batteries and can take as well as give energy quickly, but there is a limit to how much it can take at any given moment and that is all computer controlled to the MW and NS. If not, and the energy is taken out, or put back in too quickly, and POOF up in flames. Also for plug in, that energy needs to come from somewhere, and that is usually from a coal powered plant since they are the base 24x7x365 plants supplying power in most states, and while there are NG, Nuke and wind farms, Coal still makes up the majority of the plants in the country. Wind is not as green as people believe, since they are demand systems and cannot be base systems, they sit idle a lot more than they are used, and in colder climates, they actually use more energy than they create since they have heaters in them to keep the transmissions from freezing, and those use electricity. There are plenty of other factors that make wind not as great as they would make you believe.

So until there is a clean source of electrical power, none of the PHEV or EV are truly "green" vehicles, and as someone else said, there for the feel good factor.

Soopernaut

This looks pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzL...unUw7UPTMdDM4g

GoingGonzo

Batteries are getting better every year. Higher capacity, longer durability, better safety. Remember, there's a big difference in Li-Ion batteries used in cell phones that will ignite if charged incorrectly, and the LiPo batteries used in vehicles that so far have proven safe, and have only ignited when physically damaged in collisions.
http://blog.ravpower.com/2017/06/lit...mer-batteries/

This is almost exactly what I was talking about, and very similar to what Workhorse is looking to provide. Now, if only they made a SuperCrew sized chassis...

Those of us living in Pacific Northwest US, BC, and Quebec, are enjoying the clean electricity produced by our hydro-electric dams. While dams do have an environmental footprint, especially during construction, once they're up and running, the power they produce doesn't get any cleaner.
Canada produces 60% of it's power from dams, 15% nuclear, and just under 10% from coal.
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/facts/electricity/20068
In the US, it's 31% Natural Gas (which burns very clean), 30% coal, 20% nuclear, 7.5% hydro
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

Again, I'm not asking for Ford to only build PHEV trucks, just saying it would be awesome if they did develop one for those whose personal and work lifestyle would match the benefits and limitations of said vehicle. Just like they produce different lines, from XL to Limited, this would be just another trim model.

Thanks for all the comments guys.
Tony

GreenandGold831

iTrader: (1)

That doesn't really address building the batteries for these vehicles. The raw materials needed to make the batteries they require aren't available in the US, so we are required to get them from such wonderful places like the DRC.

acdii

This is the child in the closet that people don't see when it comes to "green" technology. To produce a Lion pack it requires several components, Graphite, Cobalt, Lithium salts, Nickel and Aluminum.

65% of the Graphite comes from China, where regulations against pollution are practically nil
Cobalt comes from the DRC, to the tune of 64,000 Metric Tonnes
Lithium comes from South America
Nickel comes from Canada
Aluminum comes from where ever. This is the least amount of material in a battery.

Since many of the places that mine the materials are outside of regulatory districts that put the environment ahead of production, you can imagine the damage it does. Add into this the fuel used to transport the materials, and is it really "green"?

As far as safety, the only thing that keeps a LiPo or Lion from flashing is the charging circuitry. They can burst if over/under charged, or get too hot, and the computer is what prevents this, not the battery technology. If the computer faults and causes an over charge, they go up FAST! Poke a hole in a Lipo, Life, or Lion and sit back and watch the fireworks. As soon as 02 hits the lithium it goes! I use all three types in my RC aircraft and have had a battery fail spectacularly. Thankfully it was off to the side and not in a plane or worse, my truck as there is nothing to put them out except salt water. Even ABC fire extinguishers wont put them out. As soon as air hits it, it reignites.

BTW the Tesla 3 battery pack weighs at least 1000 pounds, so imagine what one for an F150 would weigh.

mrv99

Honestly the economics do not work for such a truck. The cost would only be for the rich and for those driving to Lowe's to pick up some stuff which would get the Tesla dirty 😜

In all honestly there is no advantage yet which would make it a useful item. From weight to range to what a truck is used for. How would you like tripping out to Yellowstone with your TT and have to stop every 200 miles to charge for 4 hours with a super charger. It would be like the days of the covered wagons😂😂😂

StonedFX4

Ford needs to get their current hybrid models to operate as intended more than not. Wife has a '13 Cmax SEL, it's a good grocery getter and errand car, gets ~40mpg overall so can't complain about that. BUT, if the 12v cranking battery dies, can't even open the rear hatch to service the #$%&* battery. Ford hybrids also have a habit of just going into a "deep sleep" where you have to have the vehicle jump started to wake the system(s) up. This has happened to us 2x's in the past 60 days. The 12v battery was replaced on 6/18/18 after being determined "defective". Car had not been driven for about 3 weeks prior to 6/18/18. Yesterday we tried to use the Cmax and everything was dead, and wife had driven the car on a 50 mile trip just 3 days prior. Had the car jump started, and everything is fine now.