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You are again correct that the fluid captured in the catch can enters the intake as a vapor, but it does condense at various points along the intake and when the car is shut down, it condenses in the cylinders and crankcase. All of the fluid that we captured would have entered the intake and been added to the intake mixture. While the water vapor can have a cleaning effect on the cylinders, it makes up a minority of the content that we collected in the can. The majority of the content in the can was oil, thanks to the crankshaft slinging oil around the crankcase. When added to the combustion mixture that oil lowers the effective octane of the mixture and creates a large amount of carbon. While the 5.0L Coyote is not a DI engine (up to 2017), I'll have to send you some images of the valves in my DI GTI after about 70K with a fully-functioning PCV system - they look a little like the below (which was taken on another DI Golf).
That is an option for those who don't mind sourcing their own parts - they do require emptying more often and don't have baffles, which can cause issues if the accumulated oil sloshes to the outlet and is sucked in by the intake; but they do catch some blow-by.
Thanks!
-Steve
Early model VW's with DI had a intake valve coking problem, which has been corrected, along with BMWs, and Audis. Ford's EcoBoost engine technology has NEVER had a intake valve coking problem, and use several of their patents, this being one of them:https://patents.google.com/patent/US7137377
Take a look at combustion by-products, and you will find water vapor is the main by-product. There is no long term testing using catch cans, like the long term testing of vehicles WITHOUT catch cans. Once again, catch cans are GIMMICKS!!!!
Early model VW's with DI had a intake valve coking problem, which has been corrected, along with BMWs, and Audis. Ford's EcoBoost engine technology has NEVER had a intake valve coking problem, and use several of their patents, this being one of them:https://patents.google.com/patent/US7137377
Take a look at combustion by-products, and you will find water vapor is the main by-product. There is no long term testing using catch cans, like the long term testing of vehicles WITHOUT catch cans. Once again, catch cans are GIMMICKS!!!!
Hey Takeda,
You are correct that water is a major by-product of combustion, but it's not the largest component in blow-by / crankcase vapors in our experience. Below is a beaker of blow-by from a low mileage Ram that's been allowed to sit for about a week - it is nearly all oil. We're also not talking about a DI engine in this thread, so I won't continue with our experience on recent BMW and VW DI engines Our catch cans have been on hundreds of vehicles for millions of combined miles with no detriment to engine performance. So, while our test vehicles and customers aren't the majority of vehicles on the road, we're confident that running a catch can will not harm the engine.
You are correct that water is a major by-product of combustion, but it's not the largest component in blow-by / crankcase vapors in our experience. Below is a beaker of blow-by from a low mileage Ram that's been allowed to sit for about a week - it is nearly all oil. We're also not talking about a DI engine in this thread, so I won't continue with our experience on recent BMW and VW DI engines Our catch cans have been on hundreds of vehicles for millions of combined miles with no detriment to engine performance. So, while our test vehicles and customers aren't the majority of vehicles on the road, we're confident that running a catch can will not harm the engine.
Either way, we appreciate your feedback!
Thanks,
-Steve
You missed the point in my previous post! I said there are millions of DI (and NON DI) vehicles on the road, that have run millions, and millions of miles WITH NO PROBLEMS WITHOUT CATCH CANS! Therefore, they are a GIMMICK, and NOT NEEDED!!!!
You are obviously a salesman, and trying to sell as many catch cans that you can! B.T.W., the PCV valve is normally closed at idle, and will not pull crankcase vapors into the intake and combustion chamber when you shut the engine down, as you have previously claimed!
As someone with a supercharged motor that uses an intercooler in the valley of the motor...I want the air passing over it to be as clean as possible to not coat the fins with even the slightest amount of oil film which would reduce its efficiency. Factor in that blown motors generally produce more blow by and I’m 100% on the catch can bandwagon for this application. I’ve used them on all my turbo and supercharged trucks, collected gallons of oil over the years and have never seen one single detrimental thing happen. Like them or not, they serve a purpose.
As someone with a supercharged motor that uses an intercooler in the valley of the motor...I want the air passing over it to be as clean as possible to not coat the fins with even the slightest amount of oil film which would reduce its efficiency. Factor in that blown motors generally produce more blow by and I’m 100% on the catch can bandwagon for this application. I’ve used them on all my turbo and supercharged trucks, collected gallons of oil over the years and have never seen one single detrimental thing happen. Like them or not, they serve a purpose.
Sounds like you drive some real oil burners!! You should consider rebuilding the engines, or buying something newer!
Wow. I never would have guessed how staunchly "anti catch can" the general populace seems to be here.
Takeda, when I bought my Mustang it had 53K on it. A short time after I bought it, I was getting a "low idle" error code. At the suggestion of some folks online I pulled off the throttle body to clean it- the back of the throttle blade was completely coated in oily, carbony gunk, as was the inside of the intake manifold. It was bad enough that the throttle body was not closing properly.
I added an oil separator right after that. I'm about to turn over 100K on that car. I had the throttle body off last year and it was almost as clean as it was after I initially cleaned it 6 years ago.
Yeah, it's a real gimmick. Do vehicles NEED an oil separator? No. But I still don't think it's a bad idea. The PCV system exists for no reason other than emissions. The only reason that oily vapor is sent back into the intake is because they're not allowed to vent it to atmosphere anymore, and you can't trust a casual buyer to actually maintain a factory catch can system.
I drain my catch can every couple of weeks and sure enough there is always something in it. If I didn't already have UPR catch can I would probably buy a Mishimoto.
Wow. I never would have guessed how staunchly "anti catch can" the general populace seems to be here.
Takeda, when I bought my Mustang it had 53K on it. A short time after I bought it, I was getting a "low idle" error code. At the suggestion of some folks online I pulled off the throttle body to clean it- the back of the throttle blade was completely coated in oily, carbony gunk, as was the inside of the intake manifold. It was bad enough that the throttle body was not closing properly.
I added an oil separator right after that. I'm about to turn over 100K on that car. I had the throttle body off last year and it was almost as clean as it was after I initially cleaned it 6 years ago.
Yeah, it's a real gimmick. Do vehicles NEED an oil separator? No. But I still don't think it's a bad idea. The PCV system exists for no reason other than emissions. The only reason that oily vapor is sent back into the intake is because they're not allowed to vent it to atmosphere anymore, and you can't trust a casual buyer to actually maintain a factory catch can system.
Obviously, something happened to your Mustang in it's previous life, before you bought it! With the airflow direction behind the throttle body, you shouldn't be getting deposits on the back of the throttle plate. I just pulled the OEM intake tube off the throttle body of my 5.0L (also with 53K miles), and both sides of the throttle plate were clean, and no deposits on the intake behind the throttle body. I've changed the oil every 5K miles with Motorcraft full synthetic oil, and only used Motorcraft air filters. This is what my oil, and oil level looks like after 5K miles, ready for an oil change. The level is identical to when it was first changed, using 7.7 quarts of oil:
05-14-2018, 09:57 AM
Our catch cans have been on hundreds of vehicles for millions of combined miles with no detriment to engine performance. So, while our test vehicles and customers aren't the majority of vehicles on the road, we're confident that running a catch can will not harm the engine.
