Lemon Law
02-05-2019, 09:21 PM
#261
I’m going through this and waiting for my worksheet in last 10 days. Every time I call they say I missing some documents. Last time I talked to them I asked them to verifying everything while I’m on phone and they said they have everything. Hopefully I get my worksheet soon.
02-05-2019, 09:23 PM
#262
When I went through RAV on my Mustang, I had a trade worth 30k. The sales paperwork showed only a few hundred $$ in taxes paid. RAV tried giving me back my down payment amount and the sales tax listed on the sales doc. The Florida Lemon Law states that they are to pay back the amount of ANY allowance for a trade in. I argued that the taxes paid on that $30k trade is an allowance that needed to be paid back because I no longer had that vehicle, and I would no longer have a $30k trade to offset the taxes on my next purchase.
02-05-2019, 11:10 PM
#264
While shopping for my truck, I saw a nice screw King Ranch for sale - 2016 model. It was painful to read the carfax - the car was in EVERY MONTH for two years for "driveability issues" whatever that means. Ford bought it back in 2018 and that was on the Carfax as well.
I thought, "Hey, there's no such thing as an unfixable car, right?" and I asked the dealer what the problem was and how it was it fixed. They sent back a reply that a "display" was replaced. No further information forthcoming.
Not a CPO, but they offered to extend the warranty by a year (?!?). The asking price was somewhere between KBB retail and trade-in. Not really a steal or anything. And they said they were "firm on the price". I pointed out that a "lemon law buyback" on the carfax basically destroyed resale value for the subsequent purchasers, and they still would not budge. I guess they figured they'd sell it to some yahoo with bad credit and no common sense.
Thank God for Carfax! You can only imagine what happened to these "Lemon law buybacks" back in the day before carfax. They were put on the used car lot and sold to unsuspecting customers.
Hope you work it out with Ford. Not sure why you'd have a driveline vibration, though. Sounds like something pretty simple to fix - a bad drive shaft, bad rear axle, bad engine mount or transmission mount or something.
Funny thing, though, the warranty monkeys they hire at the Ford dealers are not necessarily the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, "factory training" notwithstanding. Unless they have a TSB on the issue (and are smart enough to look for it and find it), odds are they won't be able to diagnose the problem. Most "technicians" are playing beat-the-clock to crank out as many "repairs" in the least amount of hours. I could tell you stories from back in the day at GM. One "tech" I knew fixed a PRNDL indicator by using duct tape and pieces of a matchbook cover. Ten minutes to fix, and the Chilton's hour manual gave him 45.
Oh, well.
I thought, "Hey, there's no such thing as an unfixable car, right?" and I asked the dealer what the problem was and how it was it fixed. They sent back a reply that a "display" was replaced. No further information forthcoming.
Not a CPO, but they offered to extend the warranty by a year (?!?). The asking price was somewhere between KBB retail and trade-in. Not really a steal or anything. And they said they were "firm on the price". I pointed out that a "lemon law buyback" on the carfax basically destroyed resale value for the subsequent purchasers, and they still would not budge. I guess they figured they'd sell it to some yahoo with bad credit and no common sense.
Thank God for Carfax! You can only imagine what happened to these "Lemon law buybacks" back in the day before carfax. They were put on the used car lot and sold to unsuspecting customers.
Hope you work it out with Ford. Not sure why you'd have a driveline vibration, though. Sounds like something pretty simple to fix - a bad drive shaft, bad rear axle, bad engine mount or transmission mount or something.
Funny thing, though, the warranty monkeys they hire at the Ford dealers are not necessarily the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, "factory training" notwithstanding. Unless they have a TSB on the issue (and are smart enough to look for it and find it), odds are they won't be able to diagnose the problem. Most "technicians" are playing beat-the-clock to crank out as many "repairs" in the least amount of hours. I could tell you stories from back in the day at GM. One "tech" I knew fixed a PRNDL indicator by using duct tape and pieces of a matchbook cover. Ten minutes to fix, and the Chilton's hour manual gave him 45.
Oh, well.
02-06-2019, 08:15 AM
#265
Need some advice. Having door lock issues and front end grinding issues. they have tried multiple times to fix both, they even completely rebuilt the front end once. The dealer has been great they just cant get parts from ford. I contacted customer noservice and they say the Regional Manager will call me within a day. It is coming close to the 30 business days in the shop and the one year is about to expire in less than a month. Do I just ask for a replacement or try to work with them to get it fixed and try to get an extended warranty. I only got the base warranty when I purchased the truck. Despite my issues I couldn't be happier with my Ford maybe that is crazy but I like the lariat features, the way it drives and how comfortable the truck is.
The way I understand the Lemon Law is the start of your issue has to be within the time-frame, not the resolution. So once you contact Ford for the Regional Manager, they will work with you on fixing it, or you can request the buyback and they review your case...
02-06-2019, 11:24 AM
#266
Senior Member
Oh the grinding noise! Got that too and been waiting on parts since Dec here as well.
The way I understand the Lemon Law is the start of your issue has to be within the time-frame, not the resolution. So once you contact Ford for the Regional Manager, they will work with you on fixing it, or you can request the buyback and they review your case...
The way I understand the Lemon Law is the start of your issue has to be within the time-frame, not the resolution. So once you contact Ford for the Regional Manager, they will work with you on fixing it, or you can request the buyback and they review your case...
02-06-2019, 11:47 AM
#267
Self-locking hubs?
Sorry to hear about the grinding noise. How odd that the one thing they didn't replace - the hubs - is probably the most likely culprit.
Call me old-school, but I am no fan of self-locking hubs, electronic shift-on-the-fly 4WD and the like. Often, the electronic shift is just a button that engages an actuator that shifts the transfer case. In the old days, it sometimes took three men and a mule to shift some of those old New-Process Gear transfer cases, which made me skeptical that some electronic actuator could do the job. I mean, you could sit by the side of the road for ten minutes struggling with that damn lever before it would go into 4-low. A friend of mine used a pipe wrench on the lever of his International Scout. Never had that trouble with the twin-stick on my '48 ******, though.
Self-locking hubs seem like a swell idea, too, until they break. On my 1995 F150, they broke on the 7-mile bridge in the Keys, while I was towing a 5th wheel trailer. We went all the way across the bridge grinding and buzzing until I could pull over. You can't just stop on the bridge. After engaging and dis-engaging the transfer case several times and backing up and going forward (which supposedly engages and disengages the self-locking hubs) I finally got it to disengage and for the rest of the trip, no more grinding.
Funny thing, too. On that trip, I decided to get the front end aligned, as it had 100,000 miles on it without an alignment. The guy at the shop said it had too much toe-in and set it to "spec" and the next day, it wandered all over the road. When I got back, I twisted the tie rods in a half-turn and the steering went back to normal. Those old worm-gear steering boxes could be tightened, too, as they wore - oddly enough, you turned the tightening screw OUT to tighten them. Learned that the hard way. Still, rack-and-pinion is much better.
When I got home, I removed the hubs and found the problem. The mechanism was made of die-cast zinc (!!!), and the one ring gear had cracked in three places. I ordered WARN manual hubs and never had a problem after that. Of course, it was a PITA to get out of the truck to engage 4WD after that - you had to get out of the truck and engage both hubs, often in the mud or snow. But in the 20 years I owned that truck, I only put it in 4WD maybe once a year or so - if that. And the WARN hubs never broke.
Which is one reason I went with 2WD in the latest truck. I just never used the 4WD very often. Where we live, there is no snow.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
In your case, they did everything except replace the hubs! Gee, I wonder what the problem might be?
Warranty Monkeys - they throw parts at a truck, hoping to fix it. But the one part they cannot get.....is likely the culprit.
And of course, they are forbidden to use aftermarket parts - which might have fixed the problem for good.
Just a thought. Sorry to hear of your troubles!
Call me old-school, but I am no fan of self-locking hubs, electronic shift-on-the-fly 4WD and the like. Often, the electronic shift is just a button that engages an actuator that shifts the transfer case. In the old days, it sometimes took three men and a mule to shift some of those old New-Process Gear transfer cases, which made me skeptical that some electronic actuator could do the job. I mean, you could sit by the side of the road for ten minutes struggling with that damn lever before it would go into 4-low. A friend of mine used a pipe wrench on the lever of his International Scout. Never had that trouble with the twin-stick on my '48 ******, though.
Self-locking hubs seem like a swell idea, too, until they break. On my 1995 F150, they broke on the 7-mile bridge in the Keys, while I was towing a 5th wheel trailer. We went all the way across the bridge grinding and buzzing until I could pull over. You can't just stop on the bridge. After engaging and dis-engaging the transfer case several times and backing up and going forward (which supposedly engages and disengages the self-locking hubs) I finally got it to disengage and for the rest of the trip, no more grinding.
Funny thing, too. On that trip, I decided to get the front end aligned, as it had 100,000 miles on it without an alignment. The guy at the shop said it had too much toe-in and set it to "spec" and the next day, it wandered all over the road. When I got back, I twisted the tie rods in a half-turn and the steering went back to normal. Those old worm-gear steering boxes could be tightened, too, as they wore - oddly enough, you turned the tightening screw OUT to tighten them. Learned that the hard way. Still, rack-and-pinion is much better.
When I got home, I removed the hubs and found the problem. The mechanism was made of die-cast zinc (!!!), and the one ring gear had cracked in three places. I ordered WARN manual hubs and never had a problem after that. Of course, it was a PITA to get out of the truck to engage 4WD after that - you had to get out of the truck and engage both hubs, often in the mud or snow. But in the 20 years I owned that truck, I only put it in 4WD maybe once a year or so - if that. And the WARN hubs never broke.
Which is one reason I went with 2WD in the latest truck. I just never used the 4WD very often. Where we live, there is no snow.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
In your case, they did everything except replace the hubs! Gee, I wonder what the problem might be?
Warranty Monkeys - they throw parts at a truck, hoping to fix it. But the one part they cannot get.....is likely the culprit.
And of course, they are forbidden to use aftermarket parts - which might have fixed the problem for good.
Just a thought. Sorry to hear of your troubles!
02-06-2019, 01:21 PM
#268
Senior Member
My first truck was a 1973 F250 4x4 with the factory highboy loved that truck but the gas mileage was horrible think I got about 8mpg Yes the transfer case was a bugger but when it was in there were no problems.
i understand the rationale for locked hubs all the time without a vacuum but water gets in the iwes and then they are toast, partially engage then start the wear process and downhill from there.
i have a case number we will see if ford calls today. I do think the dealer is honestly trying to fix the problem. It has been a parts delivery problem which is not my problem. In fact our lemon law says they must overnight the parts at no cost to the owner. Will keep you posted. So far everyone I have talked to at ford and the dealer has been great and very professional.
i understand the rationale for locked hubs all the time without a vacuum but water gets in the iwes and then they are toast, partially engage then start the wear process and downhill from there.
i have a case number we will see if ford calls today. I do think the dealer is honestly trying to fix the problem. It has been a parts delivery problem which is not my problem. In fact our lemon law says they must overnight the parts at no cost to the owner. Will keep you posted. So far everyone I have talked to at ford and the dealer has been great and very professional.
02-06-2019, 03:29 PM
#269
FYI not all states reimburse for aftermarket parts. My state of NY did not, so I ate a few things like the factory brake controller i installed, bilstein rear shocks, and a few other small things. Most of the stuff I just transferred over to the new rig.
02-06-2019, 05:40 PM
#270
did you do a buyback or replacement? What did they give you back(downpayment, monthly payments, etc)?