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The knock in my 5.0...fixed?

 
Old 02-02-2019, 12:38 PM
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Default The knock in my 5.0...fixed?

For anyone that’s followed my situation with my 2016 F-150 5.0, I thought I would post an update. I’ve received somewhat of a “Chicken Little” reputation by some for pointing out when stuff is broken and putting in time to diagnose it. It started out with transmission and engine issues. With the engine, it was a tapping/knocking at idle that progressively got worse combined with random instances of thick smoke sometimes whitish yellow, sometimes blue. It was never constant, but performance started to decline, you'd feel random vibrations in the cab under acceleration, it just wasn't good. I had taken it to 6 dealerships over the course of the past 3 years and always was told it was “normal” or “it’s a characteristic of the vehicle” or, "we're not even going to look at this, take it back to where you bought it." Unfortunately, where we bought it told us to not come back after I offered to pay for diagnostics when they used the Ford will not approve teardown BS. In one case, they compared my vehicle to one that had 3 times the miles (was just traded in after powertrain warranty was expired…) and said it was normal. If that's not bad enough, I asked to talk to someone about trading it and they sent someone out an hour after I had been told it was normal...and the guy asked me if it had been run low on oil after hearing it...then gave me a trade-in value $5000 less than what it was worth. That was bad enough for us to begin litigating the issue.

We went through the BBB arbitration (a complete effing joke for obvious reasons) with no success. Around that same time I got a tip from someone on this site (just confirming once again that this site is one of the number one resources for F-150 owners...) that had gone to a specific dealership in our area (about 50 miles from where I live) who said they had the same problem and it was easily diagnosed and resolved. Sure enough, I brought it in last week, the service advisor and I confirmed the noise when I lightly brake torqued it (800-900 RPM) and I was on my way. A few days later, I was told by the dealership that they had simply pulled the spark plugs. Only the spark plugs…that is how easy it was for them to find the problem…and they found scoring in the cylinders. While it’s still ongoing, they pulled the engine and found excessive crankshaft endplay, a faulty head on bank 1, and a bearing that had let loose evidenced by a lot of metal debris in the pan. The jury’s still out on whether the crankshaft end play was the cause or just another symptom, although it was mentioned that inadequate oil pressure could have also been the cause or contributor. Either way, it wasn’t a head gasket. So for those of you that remember that thread, while the head was defective, it wasn’t just coolant, it was oil in the cylinders as well causing the smoke. The VCT issues, the misfires…none of it ever threw a single code. Not one. It would register misfires, would show slow response and error with VCT...not one code. Internal failures like that won't throw a code many times until the engine has fully grenaded...and ours was certainly on its way. I have the typical U codes for some of the modules, but nothing with the engine. Don’t let a dealership tell you that everything is fine because you don’t have a code. If you have a Coyote that knocks or taps, just pay to have the plugs pulled and the pan dropped for inspection. It’s expensive but worth it if you’ve experienced a lot of the same that my wife and I have.

There are still other issues with the truck that have not been addressed yet, but we feel somewhat vindicated by the engine issue being found finally after almost 3 years. If you’ve got a tap/knock, it’s not normal. Take care of it before your warranty is up. Hope this helps some of you with this issue. If you have any questions or are in my area and want to know more for your own situation, feel free to PM me.

Also, I want to give a shout to the members that gave me tips along the way. In the end, the user that will remain anonymous and mountaintruck, I want to thank you for helping me with the information you gave me that helped me move this forward.

Last edited by gopherman; 02-02-2019 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:03 PM
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This is a great post. Thank you gopherman!
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Old 02-03-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gopherman View Post
I’ve received somewhat of a “Chicken Little” reputation by some for pointing out when stuff is broken and putting in time to diagnose it.
They are called "Fanboys". Nothing negative can be said about the brand they are in the cult of. Every brand has them. They can buy a total POS of their favorite brand and will tell the world it is the greatest ever.
Ignore them and keep up the honest reporting.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AZ99 View Post
They are called "Fanboys". Nothing negative can be said about the brand they are in the cult of. Every brand has them. They can buy a total POS of their favorite brand and will tell the world it is the greatest ever.
Ignore them and keep up the honest reporting.
Thanks AZ. I'll admit, fanboys or not, I envy their loyalty to the brand. I personally don't have that loyalty to any brand, whether it's an automotive manufacturer or a refrigerator manufacturer but I'm sure if I did, I'd be more inclined to look the other way. There's no ill will towards those members despite some of my previous comments. Along the way some of them even gave me valuable advice. Nevertheless, what was deemed normal, wasn't normal at all and I hope for anyone that has this knock, tap, etc, that they advocate for themselves to get it resolved. The dealerships may look at you like you're crazy but the bottom-line is that the problem can be found and fixed.

I should be able to pick it up with a new engine assembly installed some time this week. I'll update the thread with the results.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:07 PM
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I also found out that they found cylinder 5 out of round. It appears the out-of-round cylinder issue made its way into the Gen II blocks as well. Bottom-line is the engine was trashed...if you have knocking at idle or during operating, get it in before the warranty is up and pay for them to do the diagnostics if necessary.

Also my grinding IWEs were fixed as well (check valve and both wheel ends). Steering, still nothing (roads have been terrible here so they didn't want to test), and they didn't look at the transmission.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:23 PM
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subd. Thanks for sharing your success story. I will do this with mine.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:49 PM
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How many miles on your truck now?
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by msgtord View Post
how many miles on your truck now?
25000.
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:35 AM
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Also, just so it helps, here's a video of the knock that made the difference in convincing the tech at the one dealership that did their job (I had done the same thing for others and was told nothing was wrong):


Notice the initial taps and the noise it makes under slight load.
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Old 02-09-2019, 01:27 PM
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Just an update. I took the vehicle back yesterday. I noticed a few things:

1. The new engine is much quieter but I can still replicate the knock brake torquing it. It was built almost 2 years ago now (4/2017) according to the stampings on the block. They said it was a brand new motor but I was really surprised that it seems to have some of the same ailments the other one had.
2. Not sure if there are just air pockets in the cooling system but every time I come to a stop the heat dwindles from being fairly hot to luke warm.
3. The IWE and check valve were replaced but it still makes a grinding at low speeds and the vibration through the pedals and the wheel are still there. I'm guessing it's the front differential that's actually making the noise?
4. Steering and transmission are still wonky as well.



At least with the other one they were able to find scoring which led them to look into it more, but this is a new engine so I'm not really sure if I'll be able to get them to do that again. I'm pretty disappointed.
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