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The Million-dollar question is - getting a PCO and registering it immediately puts your information with the certificate number into the Ford database, so have you read the thread from Post# 3051 so that windfall of extra rebate $$$'s doesn't go to absolute waste. If you don't read and learn how to cloak your information then you can kiss your savings with the PCO goodbye because the Dealiar you're dealing with can easily find it out which results in less Dealiar Discount.
The Million-dollar question is - getting a PCO and registering it immediately puts your information with the certificate number into the Ford database, so have you read the thread from Post# 3051 so that windfall of extra rebate $$$'s doesn't go to absolute waste. If you don't read and learn how to cloak your information then you can kiss your savings with the PCO goodbye because the Dealiar you're dealing with can easily find it out which results in less Dealiar Discount.
Does the PCO actually change the margin on the truck for the dealer or are people just concerned a dealer won't give them as good of a deal if they know you're getting extra $ from Ford. I always assumed the rebates and PCO stuff was basically the equivalent of cash to the dealers, but maybe that's a bad assumption. I've never seen a dealer blink an eye when I introduced PCO late into a transaction (while a truck was on order), so I just figured it didn't really hurt the dealer from a margin perspective.
I remember reading somewhere back in the posts since 3051 what the deal is when a dealer gets a vehicle from another dealer, but I cannot seem to dig it up. But I am interested in whether one should expect the same deal goals if a dealer gets the vehicle from another dealer. They are trying to make that an issue in the negotiation but I thought I remember reading to ignore that and go for the same deal as you would if it was on their lot. Any color would be appreciated.
Does the PCO actually change the margin on the truck for the dealer or are people just concerned a dealer won't give them as good of a deal if they know you're getting extra $ from Ford. I always assumed the rebates and PCO stuff was basically the equivalent of cash to the dealers, but maybe that's a bad assumption. I've never seen a dealer blink an eye when I introduced PCO late into a transaction (while a truck was on order), so I just figured it didn't really hurt the dealer from a margin perspective.
I think the key point you made is that you did a truck order. Now, I'm not seeing your Build/Price and Final Sales Sheets or Doc Fee but it's likely that your deal came in at closer to Invoice so they had a substantial Holdback on your truck as the gravy. It's also dependent on what the PCO amount was at the time.
Now, in my situation when the Dealiar is at an 11.7% TDDP and you squeak out another .25%, they are really at the bone to make the sale happen which was my case. I didn't get my $750 Certificate until 4:00 pm the evening before I was heading down to MD to sign & drive. Got into the Finance Guru's office at 11:30 am where he immediately started with the ESP, Gap and other BS. Once I shut him down, I whipped out my PCO Certificate# and his lower lip literally drop about a half inch and he froze for about 10 seconds (very awkward moment but I relished it) before he finally got some motor skills working again. He took my print screen image with the Certificate# and said he has to go check this out for a minute. He was gone for about 5 minutes. I'm betting he went to get authorization from Smart Vincent for reimbursement, but I bet he asked the Sales Gnomes like who the f**k dropped the ball to give this guy even extra discounts and didn't search to find that he had the PCO. It was priceless! I would have loved to catch this on video to post here. Others have had similar experiences.
So yes, it's a known fact that if you allow a Dealiar to find a $3,000 Cash Cow, i'll lay money down that you're not going to get a deep discount. Oh, it'll look like you did until you get to the showroom and when you present your PCO they tell you they already applied it in the discount. There's a few transactions reported by members having this exact thing happen to them. Believe me, it's real and needs to be taken seriously. Being naive most always makes a sucker out of you. Why do you think any Dealiar would even think of searching for a PCO - just because they're curious and delighted if they find you have one?
Last edited by toptobottom; 05-26-2018 at 01:33 AM.
I remember reading somewhere back in the posts since 3051 what the deal is when a dealer gets a vehicle from another dealer, but I cannot seem to dig it up. But I am interested in whether one should expect the same deal goals if a dealer gets the vehicle from another dealer. They are trying to make that an issue in the negotiation but I thought I remember reading to ignore that and go for the same deal as you would if it was on their lot. Any color would be appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
It depends if it's a trade with two-way swap then both Dealiars still have each of their Holdbacks to work with. If it's only a one-way transaction then the other Dealiar keeps the Holdback as it always goes to the Dealer the truck was delivered to. That means that the Dealiar you're working with no longer has about $1,500 to wiggle with. Also, with the costs of pickup and delivery by one of their guys,they usually want to tack on between $200-$300 for some poor old $15/hr soul spending 4 hours of their time round trip.
I think the key point you made that is that you did a truck order. Now, I'm not seeing your Build/Price and Final Sales Sheets or Doc Fee but it's likely that your deal came in at closer to Invoice so they had a substantial Holdback on your truck as the gravy. It's also dependent on what the PCO amount was at the time.
Now, in my situation when the Dealiar is at an 11.7% TDDP and you squeak out another .25%, they are really at the bone to make the sale happen which was my case. I didn't get my $750 Certificate until 4:00 pm the evening before I was heading down to MD to sign & drive. Got into the Finance Guru's office at 11:30 am where he immediately started with the ESP, Gap and other BS. Once I shut him down, I whipped out my PCO Certificate# and his lower lip literally drop about a half inch and he froze for about 10 seconds (very awkward moment but I relished it) before he finally got some motor skills working again. He took my print screen image with the Certificate# and said he has to go check this out for a minute. He was gone for about 5 minutes. I'm betting he went to get authorization from Smart Vincent for reimbursement, but I bet he asked the Sales Gnomes like who the f***k dropped the ball to give this guy even extra discounts and didn't search to find that he had the PCO. It was priceless! I would have loved to catch this on video to post here. Others have had similar experiences.
So yes, it's a known fact that if you allow a Dealiar to find a $3,000 Cash Cow, i'll lay money down that you're not going to get a deep discount. Oh, it'll look like you did until you get to the showroom and when you present your PCO they tell you they already applied it in the discount. There's a few transactions reported by members having this exact thing happen to them. Believe me, it's real and needs to be taken seriously. Being naive most always makes a sucker out of you. Why do you think any Dealiar would even think of searching for a PCO - just because they're curious and delighted if they find you have one?
So, does that mean that the PCO reduces the dealer margin? I was always under the impression that rebate and PCO was a straight pass through from Ford to dealer (reduces their cost dollar for dollar,). I think I heard that from a dealer many years ago, but maybe it's changed or maybe he was wrong (can't see any incentive to lie about it). Anyway, I can understand hiding the PCO until you've locked in your deal if it negatively affects dealer margin, but it shouldn't be a big deal if it has no affect on the margin. If I have $3k in PCO and the next guy doesn't, I get the truck for $3k less than the next guy if we are equally skilled negotiators (again, unless I'm wrong about how rebates/PCO money works). If someone lets a dealer "take" any of their PCO or rebate money, they've probably done a poor job controlling the deal.
Here's my deal for reference:
2018 Platinum 4x4 SCREW (no sunroof), purchased in TX, special order and took about 8 weeks to arrive
Total MSRP - 64,200
Invoice - 59,847 (from order sheet)
negotiated price before any rebates/PCO - $56,817
rebates - $2,500
PCO - $3,000
Price after rebates and PCO - $51,317
Dealer Inventory Tax - $94
Doc Fee - $150
License/registration, title, inspection. - $193
Sales tax - $2113 (tax was reduced by $1,100 because I had the dealer do a "pass through" deal where I sold my old truck same day to a private buyer and this allowed it to be treated as a trade and reduce my taxes, I posted about this earlier, very good approach I had not used before)
Total "out the door" was $53,868
Sorry, I know this isn't following the spreadsheet format some are using on this thread, but I think all the numbers that matter are there.
There is always room to squeeze a few more $'s out these deals, but I've mellowed as I've gotten older and I'm not going to burn hours of my time to save a couple hundred bucks and beat a poor sales guy to death in the process. I generally play "firm but nice" with these guys as long as they stick to my playbook.
I'm proud to say I'm a happy F150 owner again today, after a 4 year hiatus! Thanks to toptobottom for all his wisdom and work he's done in this thread educating us on dealiar tricks! Here's how my deal worked out:
+$49705 MSRP after discounts ($52205 before discounts)
-$6160 dealer discount (12.4%)
-$9050 rebates/incentives
= $34495 (including destination)
I worked them hard and got $1000 more for my trade in than CarMax offered. Overall I feel like I got a great deal, Ford is really offering a lot to move the older XLT 302a's off their lots.
05-25-2018, 02:16 PM
