gopherman

Has anyone successfully gone through arbitration? I've asked two attorneys (who obviously are looking for fees) what they thought and they both said, you'll never get anywhere in arbitration. I'm about to sign a retainer because Ford is asking for a final repair attempt through the BBB after initially declining in response to a letter I sent a month ago. I feel like I'm getting locked into a position where Ford will be allowed to cannibalize my two year old truck, band-aid fix it, and then I'll be left holding the bag for whatever happens next. It's cheaper for them to replace with a reman trans and engine than to risk a 63,000+ buyback...so if they find an issue, I'm fairly sure that's what they will do. For those that have been through the process, how did you handle the final repair attempt notice? How did arbitration go? Did Ford stonewall to begin? When did you jump to an attorney if that's the route you ended up taking? The damn truck nearly stalled on me today on my way home, practically fell out of gear on a kick-down, no check engine light. The knocking is worse now than it ever has been and the coolant tank had to be fully topped off two days ago even though the level is hard to read since the truck leans to one side. I'm just ready to be done, don't think I can ever be happy driving the truck with everything that's happened, and don't feel like I should take it on the chin by trading or selling it...but also realize an attorney could cost me dearly. Is arbitration a waste of time?

MotorsportsAustin

iTrader: (1)

I won at arbitration against Toyota USA for selling me a lemon Tacoma (there are many!)

Note: in California (as terribly run as it is) arbitration is binding to the manufacturer, but not to the consumer. This means that if arbitrator finds for the manufacturer, the consumer still has a second chance to do go through actual lemon law proceedings and use attorneys.

CDSP (California Disupte Settlement something) was the name of the organization who facilitates the program. I also invited someone from the State to join us at the hearing for extra effect. Essentially to win at arbitration you must prove (not suggest, but actually prove with documentation and the vehicle during a test drive) at least 2 of these:
1. loss of use
2. financial loss
3. safety concern

I didn't have a final repair situation like you described, in fact Toyota Motor Sales USA was so shady that they told two dealers that I went to, to not to write a work order for my vehicle.

gopherman

Thanks for info! In Minnesota, the law is really obscure as to whether or not they truly need a final repair attempt. The language makes it seem as if you need to give them written notice and give them an opportunity to correct the defect, but also goes on to say that 4 attempts to fix the same problem is considered reasonable. This makes me believe that a 5th attempt would no longer be reasonable. As far as proving value impairment, how exactly do you do that? Do you need an independent appraisal of the problem and value reduction? I feel like that's a hard one to prove. It's one of the reasons I feel like we'll end up losing arbitration. The issues can be reproduced easily, it's the technicalities like the final repair attempt and proof of value impairment that concern me.

MotorsportsAustin

iTrader: (1)

When I mentioned "financial loss" it means more than just vehicle appraisal value. You need to calculate factors about the vehicle, and add in documentation statements like your time, fuel expense going back and forth to dealer, etc. For value of vehicle or financial loss, having a 3rd party super reputable shop inspect the vehicle and write on the repair order key notes that say future problems may arise will help. Also ensure you show in your documentation (you'll need to create an entire binder of stuff with your case in it) how difficult this problem may make it for selling your vehicle in a highly competitive market (F150 is top selling truck) given its history and conditions that were created by the manufacturer, not you the owner.

Send me a message if you want to see the documentation I still have examples of. We can trade email then. Toyota was absolute horrible to myself and many more customers, so when they told me to sign the separate shut up agreement when they picked up my truck I told them I'm not legally required to and didn't sign it. So I'm fine sharing.

btw / anecdotally, my favorite part was when during my investigation I asked Chief Engineer of Toyota Trucks USA if they have a fix for the Tacoma problems, he told me I should look at Tundra instead. I then looked at and began leasing (I'm done owning newer vehicles) F150's and have been very happy since.

Sweetlou

scottmoyer

I just did a Ford buyback on my '17 Mustang and never filed for Lemon Law. Ford determined that the clear coat on my Mustang was an issue, and under warranty, repainted the entire car. I requested that they just replace it since it had 200 miles on it when the defect was found. All lemon laws, BBB and buy back options have to go through the warranty process, so I HAD to have the car repainted. The dealership had the car for seven weeks which clearly falls within the 15 consecutive days out of service. I had the car back about 3 weeks when a stone chipped the hood. I was noticing that the paint was starting to chip and flake in multiple places. I went back to the dealership, and the service manager immediately opened a buy back request case with Ford. It took 3 weeks for them to determine which was the best route to go and offered me a buyback option through their Reacquired Vehicles Program (RAV). I gave them the Mustang back just last week and they paid for all costs associated with owning the Mustang. They followed the Florida Lemon Law process, but I never filed for lemon law.

Have you discussed this type of option with your local service manager? They might be willing to do something like this before they're willing to mark a vehicle a lemon. Under RAV, the car will be resold, after the repairs, but they have to disclose the reason for RAV and the repairs to the buyer. A lemon just doesn't resell very well.

FLSTFI Dave

I have not done this with a Ford. However in 2005 / 06 I did it with GMC. I had traded an 01 GMC Crew Cab Dually, Duramax diesel truck for an 05 GMC Crew Cab Dually duramax diesel truck. The new 05, was rated to pull 2,000 pounds more than the 01 was rated for. I was haulling a 3 place enclosed bike trailer, 5100 pounds total weight with bikes in it across MO when the truck over heated and went into limp mode. This was first time I towed with the truck, 3 months old. Dealer found nothing wrong. The next day in Nebraska the truck overheated and left me stranded again. Towed to dealer and found nothing wrong. Two days lost now. Decided to head home instead of continue west. Truck overheated again in MO, and into limp mode. Towed to dealer and another day lost. Again nothing found wrong with truck.

Take it to the dealer at home, Dealer says nothing wrong with truck. I insist on a buy back / lemon as the truck is rated to pull 17,000 pounds and can't pull 5100 pounds. They say they can do nothing as there is nothing wrong with my truck. Got them to agree to an hour ride in the truck with me, while pulling a trailer. Hooked up a skid steer and trailer, 8600 pound total load. On a 95 degree day we went four our ride. Half an hour into the ride I headed to Watt hill on the interstate. 3/4 of the way up the truck went into limp mode with the tech in the truck. Had to have wrecker tow us to dealer. Again they could find nothing wrong. Filled with BBB and asked for Arbitration.

GMC sent a factory tech out, and asked me to haul a trailer with him in the truck. Same skid steer and trailer. With the GMC tech I went to local Cat scale to get trailer weighed and truck and trailer weighed to show I was 7900 pounds under max trailer weight rating and 8400 pounds under combination weight rating. Made GM tech sign both. Then we went for our drive, 98 degrees out, and 1/2 way up Watt hill the truck went into limp and off to the side to wait on wrecker. A week later GMs solution was to raise the temp for it to go into limp mode 15 degrees. Repeat the story, same trailer, 94 degrees and with the tech into limp mode it goes.

At this point I refuse any more patches or crap. Force it to BBB. Takes just over 6 months for arbitration to be scheduled. Day before arbitration GMC offers to replace the truck with an identical 2006, and I would have to pay 27 cents for every mile on my truck. I told them no. I would accept it if it was 27 cents a mile for all the miles up to the day it first left me stranded in MO. They said no. The morning of Arbitration I was called again with a new offer of 25 cents a mile for every mile on the truck. I told them ok, but only the miles up to the first time it was towed. Again they said no.

GMC calls again while I am pulling into the parking lot of BBB for Arbitration. They offer 22 cents a mile for every mile on my truck is what I pay t get into the 2006. Again I tell them I will pay 22 cents for every mile up to the first time it was towed. They said no. Sitting in Arbitration, GMC calls again. They say 22 cents a mile is what I have to pay up to the first time it is towed, and I will get a 2006 optioned exactly the same as my 05. I accepted the offer. Truck had 3215 miles on it the first time towed. So I had to pay 707.30 for the new truck, plus fees to transfer tags. Also had to wait 7 more weeks for new truck to be built. My lemon had 27300 miles on it when they got it back, 1 year and 1 month after initial purchase.

I would not wish that pain in the rear on any one. It was a real head ache and I lost many nights sleep over it.

scottmoyer

It is a lot of work and takes a lot of time to resolve. All new cars are getting more and more techy with electronics and computers running everything. I've now done two cars since 2016. I also had a 2015 Charger Scat Pack that had lots of electrical issues. Dodge did the MSRP to MSRP swap on that one. They replaced the 2015 with a 2017. Within one week of ownership, the 2017 lost the dash and radio displays multiple times. I traded in a 2017 Charger Scat Pack with 400 miles on it and it was 8 days old. We ordered this car the day the order banks opened, so I traded in a car before the dealer could even get inventory!

mrv99

I had a Lemon buyback and all I can say is it carries by state and your circumstances. The simple buybacks happen when the car is still new and major issues arise. My attorney friend has done tons of these and he says the same thing. It gets murky when your vehicle starts getting older with miles. My buy back was done with only 5k on the car and 72 days in the shop. I have seen others with 35k miles and 2 years of ownership get denied with very similar problems. It all comes down to the specific details of your case.

acdii

Going through Breach of Warranty against Ford on mine. In my case it is best to hire an attorney and let them handle it. Cost me $200 so far to pay for an inspection. If I win, Ford pays the legal fees and attorney fees, if I lose, the lawfirm eats it. Since I passed the 36K limit with the BBB, it is past buyback stage, but considering I have 1/2" stack of repair bills, and it has been out of service 31 days, with at least 6 repairs for the same issue, which it still has, and 3 repair attempts on another issue, and it is still not repaired and is a safety issue, they feel I have a good case to get Diminished Value. It takes a long time though, started beginning of April and the papers were just filed 2 weeks ago because of procedures. Have to follow procedures, give notice to Ford, and the BBB, let that play out, and then onto the next steps, filing to sue. This is the stage I am at now.

The inspection did confirm my complaints, and a few others that are No problem found issues. As far as the steering issue, they can't do anything more to correct it, they corrected it with an update, but now it is back doing what it did before the update and once updated, can't be updated again with the same patch, and nothing new has come out since, and Ford won't replace the EPAS. From what I ahve been told, I have at least 2 more weeks before I should hear of a response from Ford.