AWD truck?
08-01-2018, 10:00 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
AWD truck?
Random thought:
Do you think Ford, or any other company will make an all-wheel drive truck?
obviously some trucks come with the 4A option, which is awesome, and I wish I had.
but, ever a true AWD truck? I know awd can hurt gas mileage which may be a big reason why it won’t happen.
but awd cars are all the rage now, traction, safety etc.... even though awd and 4x4 doesn’t help turning or stopping, but that’s a different discussion.
yes, I get the difference between 4x4 and awd... and having a feature to turn it off to save mpg I get, but I’m talking a true awd truck.
so, thoughts on a true awd truck?
i could maybe see the smaller trucks like ranger or Colorado doing it as a trim line or model, or even the new Mercedes Benz truck (which is a rebadged Nissan if you ask me)
Do you think Ford, or any other company will make an all-wheel drive truck?
obviously some trucks come with the 4A option, which is awesome, and I wish I had.
but, ever a true AWD truck? I know awd can hurt gas mileage which may be a big reason why it won’t happen.
but awd cars are all the rage now, traction, safety etc.... even though awd and 4x4 doesn’t help turning or stopping, but that’s a different discussion.
yes, I get the difference between 4x4 and awd... and having a feature to turn it off to save mpg I get, but I’m talking a true awd truck.
so, thoughts on a true awd truck?
i could maybe see the smaller trucks like ranger or Colorado doing it as a trim line or model, or even the new Mercedes Benz truck (which is a rebadged Nissan if you ask me)
08-01-2018, 10:39 PM
#2
I much prefer 4A than AWD, because it's the best of both worlds to me. If you think you'll need AWD, just switch **** to 4A and problem solved. The extra weight is still there with 4A, which equates to 1 MPG, but you save 1 MPG by not rotating them all the time. Fuel economy is already pretty dismal on these trucks, so why make it worse without need? Just saying 
.
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08-01-2018, 11:04 PM
#3
Maybe one day. Modern AWD systems have capabilities that a 4WD system doesn't. In the 4A mode the truck can go from 2WD to 4WD when slip is detected. On an AWD system it can do the same but also transfer power to the axle with the most traction not just a 50/50 split. Some systems can then transfer power to the left or right wheel. Honda's AWD system doesn't have a 4Lo mode for bad situations but it's AWD system with the power transfer capability is pretty good and can get it out of situations most Honda Pilot owners would never encounter. Now imagine if the F-150 had this plus 4LO, locking diffs if needed, and off road tires.
In the video pay attention that as soon as the front wheels hit the the hard surface the rear wheels stop spinning because the system transferred 100% of the power to the front wheels.
In the video pay attention that as soon as the front wheels hit the the hard surface the rear wheels stop spinning because the system transferred 100% of the power to the front wheels.
08-02-2018, 12:48 AM
#4
Maybe one day. Modern AWD systems have capabilities that a 4WD system doesn't. In the 4A mode the truck can go from 2WD to 4WD when slip is detected. On an AWD system it can do the same but also transfer power to the axle with the most traction not just a 50/50 split. Some systems can then transfer power to the left or right wheel. Honda's AWD system doesn't have a 4Lo mode for bad situations but it's AWD system with the power transfer capability is pretty good and can get it out of situations most Honda Pilot owners would never encounter. Now imagine if the F-150 had this plus 4LO, locking diffs if needed, and off road tires.
In the video pay attention that as soon as the front wheels hit the the hard surface the rear wheels stop spinning because the system transferred 100% of the power to the front wheels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE5gyp_l6SI
In the video pay attention that as soon as the front wheels hit the the hard surface the rear wheels stop spinning because the system transferred 100% of the power to the front wheels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE5gyp_l6SI
08-02-2018, 08:27 AM
#5
FORD lifer
Fords AWD system that they use in the Police Vehicles is pretty much perfection as far as these systems go, because it will send up to 100% of the torque to any wheel, or combination of wheels, depending on the traction.
We have a 2014 Taurus Police Sedan, for which I bought a second set of wheels with studless snow tires and it is awesome.
I’ve parked with both left tires on a glare of ice, the two right tires on dry, floored it, and it will not spin a tire, it just takes off.
I just don’t know how well all those clutches and transfer case would hold up in a 5500 lb truck, maybe pulling a trailer.
We have a 2014 Taurus Police Sedan, for which I bought a second set of wheels with studless snow tires and it is awesome.
I’ve parked with both left tires on a glare of ice, the two right tires on dry, floored it, and it will not spin a tire, it just takes off.
I just don’t know how well all those clutches and transfer case would hold up in a 5500 lb truck, maybe pulling a trailer.
08-02-2018, 09:09 AM
#6
Senior Member
I always wondered the same thing - until I just bought my 2015 Lariat about 5 weeks ago. I never knew about the 4A thing until I sat in it and saw it.
Previously with my ‘09 FX4 I would be switching in and out of 4WD constantly. Here in the mountains the elevation varies a lot. It will be wet roads in the valleys and be snowing like crazy on the ridges. Also always running into white outs being in the lake snow zone. I am so excited for this upcoming winter to use the 4A option. That along with my dedicated winter tires it should be like glue on the slippery roads.
Previously with my ‘09 FX4 I would be switching in and out of 4WD constantly. Here in the mountains the elevation varies a lot. It will be wet roads in the valleys and be snowing like crazy on the ridges. Also always running into white outs being in the lake snow zone. I am so excited for this upcoming winter to use the 4A option. That along with my dedicated winter tires it should be like glue on the slippery roads.
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08-02-2018, 10:35 AM
#8
Senior Member
So remember that most labeled AWD system are actually FWD systems with supplemental rear torque capability. Take the Taurus system or the volvo system or the acura/honda etc etc.
Most start life as a FWD platform and transaxle. Then you add a PTO on the transaxle - such that via some viscous coupling it transmits some torque to the rear of the vehicle - then another usually OPEN diff splits to the rear wheels and andy L to R slippage is controlled via stability control / ABS systems.
AS far as I know there is not an AWD system (including subarus) that will setup the wheels to do a full 25/25/25/25 torque split to all 4 wheels. Including the police pursuit packages on the taurus and explorer. Most I recall there are a few that will do a 55/45 front/rear split and again both front and rear differentials are open not lockable or even limited slip.
Volvo on the high power s80 gets close in that they put in a lsd at the front but their rear is still open and only sees at most 40% torque split. The Police Pursuit explorer I belive does similar is that it has a lsd diff for the front but not the back - the back is again controlled via stability augmentation system. I admit it's been a while since I was under one. Reason they do this is mostly the limits of the torque transfer of the viscous couplers - and because the platforms structural design was based around at FWD appliance.
There is one RWD based AWD system I can think of and it was a Australian GM (Holden) product that the normal platform was RWD - and they made a limited run of AWD versions that used the transfer case and front setup from the UTE 4x4 model and put in the electronics to flick the transfer case in and out as need by the stability system. HOwever it wasn't built with the highest 2 power limits.
Most start life as a FWD platform and transaxle. Then you add a PTO on the transaxle - such that via some viscous coupling it transmits some torque to the rear of the vehicle - then another usually OPEN diff splits to the rear wheels and andy L to R slippage is controlled via stability control / ABS systems.
AS far as I know there is not an AWD system (including subarus) that will setup the wheels to do a full 25/25/25/25 torque split to all 4 wheels. Including the police pursuit packages on the taurus and explorer. Most I recall there are a few that will do a 55/45 front/rear split and again both front and rear differentials are open not lockable or even limited slip.
Volvo on the high power s80 gets close in that they put in a lsd at the front but their rear is still open and only sees at most 40% torque split. The Police Pursuit explorer I belive does similar is that it has a lsd diff for the front but not the back - the back is again controlled via stability augmentation system. I admit it's been a while since I was under one. Reason they do this is mostly the limits of the torque transfer of the viscous couplers - and because the platforms structural design was based around at FWD appliance.
There is one RWD based AWD system I can think of and it was a Australian GM (Holden) product that the normal platform was RWD - and they made a limited run of AWD versions that used the transfer case and front setup from the UTE 4x4 model and put in the electronics to flick the transfer case in and out as need by the stability system. HOwever it wasn't built with the highest 2 power limits.
08-02-2018, 10:38 AM
#9
Not sure what you consider a truck but my old 2000 5.0 Explorer was a true all-time AWD system. It got 17 or MPGs city driving so it wasn't terrible. Would never bind or cause issues on dry roads in tight turns. You couldn't tell the system was always working. Got rid of it with 200K miles and never one problem from the drivetrain with the exception of a DPFE sensor.
08-02-2018, 10:47 AM
#10
Senior Member
They are not meant to be tow capable or often that's not part of the design criteria.
For a truck device I can see where you would want to have 4A system that is predominantly RWD with the ability to cut on the front wheels as need. and again the front in that case if an open diff and the back is either a locking or some stronger LSD system.
I suspect strength for towing capacity and payload over rear axle will always trump the need for some AWD system on a truck. Full Size SUV where the payload variance is capped - and the tow rating might be purposely lowered - you might see a more AWD setup but I bet cost and use case you'll find the 4A system far more often.
damn it I forget one. BMW's Xdrive and Mercedes 4matic systems are RWD biased AWD systems and they typically top out at a either 100% RWD to a 35/65 F/R split for torque. Audi Quattro system is similar in most of their platforms. Subaru's kit under the WRX does allow for a full 50/50 setup but again the FWD part is open while the RWD part is lSD. Packaging is often a major limiter.
every AWD system today adds weight to the vehicle and requires additional electronic controls between bits none of which really help a truck today. 4A in my opinion is the better system choice all around as it can fully decouple the FWd portion just like standard 4x4 systems and to be fair you don't need it most of the time.
For a truck device I can see where you would want to have 4A system that is predominantly RWD with the ability to cut on the front wheels as need. and again the front in that case if an open diff and the back is either a locking or some stronger LSD system.
I suspect strength for towing capacity and payload over rear axle will always trump the need for some AWD system on a truck. Full Size SUV where the payload variance is capped - and the tow rating might be purposely lowered - you might see a more AWD setup but I bet cost and use case you'll find the 4A system far more often.
damn it I forget one. BMW's Xdrive and Mercedes 4matic systems are RWD biased AWD systems and they typically top out at a either 100% RWD to a 35/65 F/R split for torque. Audi Quattro system is similar in most of their platforms. Subaru's kit under the WRX does allow for a full 50/50 setup but again the FWD part is open while the RWD part is lSD. Packaging is often a major limiter.
every AWD system today adds weight to the vehicle and requires additional electronic controls between bits none of which really help a truck today. 4A in my opinion is the better system choice all around as it can fully decouple the FWd portion just like standard 4x4 systems and to be fair you don't need it most of the time.