Autostart Efficiency Question
07-06-2017, 04:34 PM
#22
Senior Member
I have heard that some systems auto start by firing an injector (which one depends on crankshaft position) and carefully timed spark to get the warm engine going again. This would be more fuel efficient and save starters and batteries. I don't know if ford uses this method.
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backpackster (07-10-2017)
07-06-2017, 04:38 PM
#23
Senior Member
I do not. But I do own a 2010 Fusion Hybrid, which not only turns off at every stop light, but turns off every time I drop below 47 MPH if the batteries can handle the load. I get a great 37MPH in the summer, and low 30s in the winter. Love the technology!
07-06-2017, 04:41 PM
#24
Senior Member
I've said this before but I'll say it again. If I'd never known about start/stop and there wasn't the green indicator and the off switch that I would have been curious about I would never have known it is doing it. That being said, if there's an indication that your truck is doing it you need to get it fixed before the warranty expires.
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Ricktwuhk (07-06-2017)
07-06-2017, 04:53 PM
#25
Texas A&M Aggie
I messed with it in a company truck, I immediately noticed a difference. The AC doesn't blow as cold when stopped at a red light in South Texas, and is quickly noticeable. If the belt isn't turning, the compressor isn't turning, which isn't allowing your refrigerant to circulate and cool. Therefore, causing the AC system to be less efficient. This is the number one complaint I hear about it, and the only one I have experienced. I tested if I could "beat" the engine to starting, and it was pretty easy to do. This was all on a 2015, so it may have improved (and likely did) by 2017. But these are my real world experiences and I was not impressed.
07-06-2017, 04:55 PM
#26
Senior Member
Ford could solve this problem for everybody my allowing the owner to shut it off permanently like they do other features.
07-06-2017, 05:05 PM
#27
Senior Member
The EPA rules are written such that if you could turn it of permanently, then it would have to be off for the fuel economy testing. If it's off then, there's no point in developing it at all.
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Ricktwuhk (07-06-2017)
07-06-2017, 05:07 PM
#28
Senior Member
I messed with it in a company truck, I immediately noticed a difference. The AC doesn't blow as cold when stopped at a red light in South Texas, and is quickly noticeable. If the belt isn't turning, the compressor isn't turning, which isn't allowing your refrigerant to circulate and cool. Therefore, causing the AC system to be less efficient. This is the number one complaint I hear about it, and the only one I have experienced. I tested if I could "beat" the engine to starting, and it was pretty easy to do. This was all on a 2015, so it may have improved (and likely did) by 2017. But these are my real world experiences and I was not impressed.
07-06-2017, 05:28 PM
#29
Senior Member
Couple of myths to clear first.
the whole more effecient to keep running vs the gas to start the engine thing might have been true in the days of carburation but not so much to day and even less so in the world of Direct Injection.
Therefore start stop does save a good bit of fuel in the stop and go life of city drivings. Start stop gives you much of the MPG benefit of hybrids without the cost of the bigger batteries and the electric traction motor.
The additional wear and tear on the engine isn not really true either. Notice start stop doesn't enable until the engine has warmed to a certain point - it waits for the water temp to hit a target, oil temp and the Catalytic converters to reach temp - then it will activate. Thus when it does activate it's starting an engine that has oil everywhere and even some residual oil pressure even at the cam - the engine is shutoff at a particular point in cycle to take the least effort (IE it waits for an optimum shutdown point) and being direct injection it can pulse discrete fuel to the cylinder first getting fired on start up - giving it a little extra to speed up the process. The starter on the stop start models is stronger than necessary and built with bigger bearings
On the annoying parts I will say here in the south and in summer I find it doesn't stay off long because of the aircon - I sort of wish they had put the battery capacity in to run an electric air conditioning compressor like a full hybrid would have. I expect in fall and winter it will shut off quite a while at stop lights.
Side question - I've never sat behind mine but does it happen to keep the brake lights on until you step on the gas pedal when autostart is activated? I could see that being a safety thing - sort of like how hybrids turn on the brake lights when you take your foot off the gas because of regenerative braking.
We have this argument at work often. I would love to see marketed to city folk a car that is only meant to go 50, not certified for interstate travel, light weight - more efficient - feature minimal.
My issue is that while we'd like to see a lot of governmental impact go away - you're not willing to pay for much of it and your insurance company doesn't want you driving without it. Take airbags - made standard by government regulation but pressed into effect by the insurance lobby. Why - reduce cost of casualty rates and reduce cost of injury settlements.
Event recorders - part of every airbag system in a car since 2004 and was part of the move to CAN Buss by many makers. Brought on by EU mandates - accepted by many. If the event of an accident your car can and will tattle on you recording the speed, steering angle, brake force (how hard were you on the brakes), existing fault conditions, and some other things. If you are in an accident and you want to say it was the fault of the car - the event recorder will be used in the lawsuit.
Would you like to opt out of either of those - sure you would. Are you willing to pay for it - I highly doubt it because both will cost you more money upon the purchase of the car.
I'd love to get a car without any sort of infotainment setup and just an empty hole in the dash - so I can put in whatever aftermarket stereo I like. Would love that - but give me universal CAN Buss pass though of those nifty steering wheel controls - because I love that too
HUD - I think all cars should have head up display - but make it an option I'd buy it.
even better standalone options - Now I don't want the whole tech package I just want remote start. (yes often you can add it later)
the whole more effecient to keep running vs the gas to start the engine thing might have been true in the days of carburation but not so much to day and even less so in the world of Direct Injection.
Therefore start stop does save a good bit of fuel in the stop and go life of city drivings. Start stop gives you much of the MPG benefit of hybrids without the cost of the bigger batteries and the electric traction motor.
The additional wear and tear on the engine isn not really true either. Notice start stop doesn't enable until the engine has warmed to a certain point - it waits for the water temp to hit a target, oil temp and the Catalytic converters to reach temp - then it will activate. Thus when it does activate it's starting an engine that has oil everywhere and even some residual oil pressure even at the cam - the engine is shutoff at a particular point in cycle to take the least effort (IE it waits for an optimum shutdown point) and being direct injection it can pulse discrete fuel to the cylinder first getting fired on start up - giving it a little extra to speed up the process. The starter on the stop start models is stronger than necessary and built with bigger bearings
On the annoying parts I will say here in the south and in summer I find it doesn't stay off long because of the aircon - I sort of wish they had put the battery capacity in to run an electric air conditioning compressor like a full hybrid would have. I expect in fall and winter it will shut off quite a while at stop lights.
Side question - I've never sat behind mine but does it happen to keep the brake lights on until you step on the gas pedal when autostart is activated? I could see that being a safety thing - sort of like how hybrids turn on the brake lights when you take your foot off the gas because of regenerative braking.
My issue is that while we'd like to see a lot of governmental impact go away - you're not willing to pay for much of it and your insurance company doesn't want you driving without it. Take airbags - made standard by government regulation but pressed into effect by the insurance lobby. Why - reduce cost of casualty rates and reduce cost of injury settlements.
Event recorders - part of every airbag system in a car since 2004 and was part of the move to CAN Buss by many makers. Brought on by EU mandates - accepted by many. If the event of an accident your car can and will tattle on you recording the speed, steering angle, brake force (how hard were you on the brakes), existing fault conditions, and some other things. If you are in an accident and you want to say it was the fault of the car - the event recorder will be used in the lawsuit.
Would you like to opt out of either of those - sure you would. Are you willing to pay for it - I highly doubt it because both will cost you more money upon the purchase of the car.
I'd love to get a car without any sort of infotainment setup and just an empty hole in the dash - so I can put in whatever aftermarket stereo I like. Would love that - but give me universal CAN Buss pass though of those nifty steering wheel controls - because I love that too
HUD - I think all cars should have head up display - but make it an option I'd buy it.
even better standalone options - Now I don't want the whole tech package I just want remote start. (yes often you can add it later)
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mikemtn (07-06-2017)
07-06-2017, 05:53 PM
#30
"Therefore start stop does save a good bit of fuel in the stop and go life of city drivings. Start stop gives you much of the MPG benefit of hybrids without the cost of the bigger batteries and the electric traction motor."
One gallon of gas will idle a little V6 like these for three to four hours. Even in city stop and creep, how long are you really stopped? That isn't a rhetorical question. Between the engine hour meter and the clock in the trip meters you can figure out exactly how much stop start is saving you.
I did figure out, and for me it's 10 hours a year. That's six bucks. A 30 second red light saves you literally half a cent. Some people may sit in traffic twice as much as I do. Some people may be able to take the no-AC sweat in the eyeballs and run it in the summer too. Pretend you do both of these things, which is by now describing a really pretty awful commute, and you're up to 20 bucks a year.
Now factor in that Ford spent, which is to say you and I paid, in the order of 200 bucks per vehicle to add this feature.
It's a kick in the ***** from the EPA and that's all there is to it.
One gallon of gas will idle a little V6 like these for three to four hours. Even in city stop and creep, how long are you really stopped? That isn't a rhetorical question. Between the engine hour meter and the clock in the trip meters you can figure out exactly how much stop start is saving you.
I did figure out, and for me it's 10 hours a year. That's six bucks. A 30 second red light saves you literally half a cent. Some people may sit in traffic twice as much as I do. Some people may be able to take the no-AC sweat in the eyeballs and run it in the summer too. Pretend you do both of these things, which is by now describing a really pretty awful commute, and you're up to 20 bucks a year.
Now factor in that Ford spent, which is to say you and I paid, in the order of 200 bucks per vehicle to add this feature.
It's a kick in the ***** from the EPA and that's all there is to it.
