All octane tunes?
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TX-Ripper (02-13-2018)
The following users liked this post:
TX-Ripper (02-13-2018)
02-13-2018, 09:40 AM
#23
Senior Member
I feel like the creator of this thread has no clue just how advanced the sensors on this engine are. You don't need to optimize for anything but the fuel directly in the middle of where you plan to run, everything else the ECU SHOULD be configured to handle as that's how the stock logic works and leaving that part of the stock logic in place should be a goal.
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TX-Ripper (02-13-2018)
02-13-2018, 11:50 AM
#25
Senior Member
That's not an optimized map though, IIRC. I not done much work with Bosch programing (I believe that's a Bosch ECU system) so I'm not that familar with it but by numbering scheme the optimized maps are 1,2 and 3 which is where the power and performace figures on those cars start from.
There are so many variables though so that's not really valid to a particular engine either.
I feel like the creator of this thread has no clue just how advanced the sensors on this engine are. You don't need to optimize for anything but the fuel directly in the middle of where you plan to run, everything else the ECU SHOULD be configured to handle as that's how the stock logic works and leaving that part of the stock logic in place should be a goal.
02-13-2018, 11:54 AM
#26
Senior Member
I suspect it takes MORE talent to make a good all octane tune than to make one for a single octane. That said, I can see how someone without the talent to do so could make a rather mediocre 'all octane' tune that would be bashed by a good single octane tuner as providing no real gains. I can also see someone with obvious talent for tuning bashing something that he cannot do (or rather that he probably could do but has not invested the time to figure it out).
I've got respect for SSI's results, I just think they run the ragged edge though (and I think that is where problems arise when you get a truck with a little weaker component that still meets tolerances, would have been fine at stock power levels but just cannot handle significantly increased loads).
I'd love to see an 87 octane SSI tune vs Oz on a 5.0, preferably in the same truck ('15-'17). (SSI 89 and 91 vs Oz would be interesting too, I don't care to see 93 because it is not available here). Heck, compare them to stock too. I do not think there are tons of gains to be had based on a few other threads that had charts for other tunes.
Like I said, I do not recall a single thread where someone who was previously tuned tried Oz and went back to what they had before. That speaks volumes to me. Not having to worry about my wife taking my truck and deciding to be nice and fill it up with the 'wrong' octane is worth something too.
I've got respect for SSI's results, I just think they run the ragged edge though (and I think that is where problems arise when you get a truck with a little weaker component that still meets tolerances, would have been fine at stock power levels but just cannot handle significantly increased loads).
I'd love to see an 87 octane SSI tune vs Oz on a 5.0, preferably in the same truck ('15-'17). (SSI 89 and 91 vs Oz would be interesting too, I don't care to see 93 because it is not available here). Heck, compare them to stock too. I do not think there are tons of gains to be had based on a few other threads that had charts for other tunes.
Like I said, I do not recall a single thread where someone who was previously tuned tried Oz and went back to what they had before. That speaks volumes to me. Not having to worry about my wife taking my truck and deciding to be nice and fill it up with the 'wrong' octane is worth something too.
02-13-2018, 03:12 PM
#27
Senior Member
The whole purpose of tuning is to remove the slop. adjustments aside yes a modern ECU will accomodate a wide range of differences. and over time make those adjustments more or less permanent (until full hard reset that is).
At the OE level the ECU is made to run a wide range of test cases - including the motor that's got 100K miles of slop in the rings, crank, valves . . . . . . such that it makes ___% less than rated for the veichle. I say blank there because everone allows for something. That same ECU logic and data runs the engine that is jam up tight with fantasic airflow, clean injectors, good plugs (if needed) . . . that makes ____% over test value.
YOu seen these cars on some dyno runs - the ones that start off some 20HP over spec from the factory, or more. And that same ECU - if equipped tolerates E85, and worn plugs, . . . . . . .
But that's not necessarily working out for your engine - specifically - in an fully optimized manner. Now yes you can optimize the base system keeping the tolerances in play and run all octanes all the time, while still taking advantage of better spark timing or adjust valve timing tables, etc. And it will run better.
But the more you know about how the car will be run - and the conditions the driver plans to maintain - then you can often make further optimizations. More so if you use a dyno and then do some street driving. If you take the time to work though it you'll do more or less what the OE does when they setup the ECU in the first place. But you will do so knowing the specifics - not worrying about the edge cases.
This is why I'm leery of an ALL OCTANE tune. I will however say this - brand new as in last 3 years worth ECU systems are capable of storing more data, and swapping more conditions than before - like all other computers they get better all the time on the process and memory fronts. To say you could make an ALL octane tollerate tune on the new 2.7L ecoboost (or whatever) that makes as much HP and TQ as a fully vetted 93 octane tune might be feasible. but I'd have to see them run back to back on dyno and then run back to back on 1/4 mile before I believe it.
At the OE level the ECU is made to run a wide range of test cases - including the motor that's got 100K miles of slop in the rings, crank, valves . . . . . . such that it makes ___% less than rated for the veichle. I say blank there because everone allows for something. That same ECU logic and data runs the engine that is jam up tight with fantasic airflow, clean injectors, good plugs (if needed) . . . that makes ____% over test value.
YOu seen these cars on some dyno runs - the ones that start off some 20HP over spec from the factory, or more. And that same ECU - if equipped tolerates E85, and worn plugs, . . . . . . .
But that's not necessarily working out for your engine - specifically - in an fully optimized manner. Now yes you can optimize the base system keeping the tolerances in play and run all octanes all the time, while still taking advantage of better spark timing or adjust valve timing tables, etc. And it will run better.
But the more you know about how the car will be run - and the conditions the driver plans to maintain - then you can often make further optimizations. More so if you use a dyno and then do some street driving. If you take the time to work though it you'll do more or less what the OE does when they setup the ECU in the first place. But you will do so knowing the specifics - not worrying about the edge cases.
This is why I'm leery of an ALL OCTANE tune. I will however say this - brand new as in last 3 years worth ECU systems are capable of storing more data, and swapping more conditions than before - like all other computers they get better all the time on the process and memory fronts. To say you could make an ALL octane tollerate tune on the new 2.7L ecoboost (or whatever) that makes as much HP and TQ as a fully vetted 93 octane tune might be feasible. but I'd have to see them run back to back on dyno and then run back to back on 1/4 mile before I believe it.
02-13-2018, 03:54 PM
#28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Guessing you probably raced guys with 'canned' tunes that came with the tuner. Not the same thing.
Have not yet seen anyone post that the Oz tune was slower, in fact, seems to me most who have posted about it stick with it even if they have tried several others prior.
I do know that if you want a windowed block on an EB (I don't think he has found a way to do it to a 5.0 yet but I could be wrong), there is one tuner who seems to be better at achieving that than all the others combined...I won't say who but I think we all know the answer.
It's their page, right up until someone copies and pastes it here...
Have not yet seen anyone post that the Oz tune was slower, in fact, seems to me most who have posted about it stick with it even if they have tried several others prior.
I do know that if you want a windowed block on an EB (I don't think he has found a way to do it to a 5.0 yet but I could be wrong), there is one tuner who seems to be better at achieving that than all the others combined...I won't say who but I think we all know the answer.
It's their page, right up until someone copies and pastes it here...
02-13-2018, 04:34 PM
#29
Senior Member
