3.2- liter diesel...
09-11-2014, 06:15 AM
#81
Senior Member
That's not what I read. Diesel is obtained in a lower portion of the refineries distillation tower, gas up a level, and aviation at the top. I don't see gasoline engines with one of those burn-off tanks that has to be cycled from time to time, a few cats takes care of the little that's left over after the combustion process in a gas operated vehicle compared to the carbon and other byproducts left behind by the diesel. BTW, another maintenance cost in owning a modern diesel driven vehicle. Ever have a diesel pass you on the highway, I have to pull over and wait for the fumes to blow away. I hate diesels and will never own one in automotive vehicle. They stink to high hell fueling them, working on them, and driving behind one, yes the new ones to. They are more expensive to purchase, operate, and maintain, than gasoline power plants.
The draw for the fractions has to do with the molecular weight of the final product, not with the fuel being more refined than another. (That's in general terms, we have some refinery workers here who could add specifics)
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hydro (09-11-2014)
09-11-2014, 06:25 AM
#82
Try starting a non-preheated diesel when it's -40 F, good luck. That's is if the fuel hasn't turned to gel. Higher cost of diesel fuel, increased cost of diesel engine option and maintenance and the gas wins every time. You can run long oil change intervals with gasoline engines using full synthetic oil and one extra oil filter change topping off the oil maybe once in 10,000 miles.
09-11-2014, 06:31 AM
#83
Senior Member
Try starting a non-preheated diesel when it's -40 F, good luck. That's is if the fuel hasn't turned to gel. Higher cost of diesel fuel, increased cost of diesel engine option and maintenance and the gas wins every time. You can run long oil change intervals with gasoline engines using full synthetic oil and one extra oil filter change topping off the oil maybe once in 10,000 miles.
09-11-2014, 06:43 PM
#84
Senior Member
- bottom of the crude tower is heavy resid that goes to the coker for more processing and after extracting the most out of it you get chucks of carbon that goes to the aluminum industry and other buyers. The slops will be used as bunker oil or asphalt.
-Next cut is heavy gas oil. This will go to FCC or Hydrocrackers to extract more diesel , gasoline and jet.
- medium gas oil is next. This goes to cracking units or alkylation units to make gasoline or gas blend stocks.
- diesel distillate is next higher. self explanatory
- Jet cut is next. Kerosine and jet fuels.
- Naphtha , which goes to reformers and other gasoline units.
- Finally at the top of the tower your light ends. Propane, propylene, butane, etc..
Obviously there is way more to it especially what happens to each cut after the crude tower, but that's a quick crash course of the fractionation
I'm at the Tesoro ( Arco, shell, ) Refinery in Los Angeles. I'm a unit operator & firefighter at our hydrogen plant , Isom unit ( clean gasoline blend stock) and C3 Splitter ( propane, propylene).
09-12-2014, 05:03 AM
#85
I did say IF
Nothing against you, but I don't care for the dash, it's to cluttered and not easy to read. I hate the gear select ****, a really bad Idea from Chrysler. How un-truck like with only P R N D, where are the lower gears, not selectable? And coil spring rear suspension, you can have it. All measures to lighten and impress eco mined buyers and the Obama driven EPA.
Ram, or should I say Fiat has emasculated this truck if you want to call it that. I'd say it's just a car with a high roof and small box. A few years ago you could take your fist and smash the dash and the whole thing it would shatter into a million pieces, that was a good one! The whole idea that is being pushed on the American public to buy ever more eco driven vehicles is insane. Steady progress is one thing, but this eco push is ridiculous. We buy trucks for a reason, not to be eco friendly warm fuzzy feel-good vehicles. F&^% the EPA and what they're doing to our cars. I wouldn't feel good about buying anything now foreign owned.
Ram, or should I say Fiat has emasculated this truck if you want to call it that. I'd say it's just a car with a high roof and small box. A few years ago you could take your fist and smash the dash and the whole thing it would shatter into a million pieces, that was a good one! The whole idea that is being pushed on the American public to buy ever more eco driven vehicles is insane. Steady progress is one thing, but this eco push is ridiculous. We buy trucks for a reason, not to be eco friendly warm fuzzy feel-good vehicles. F&^% the EPA and what they're doing to our cars. I wouldn't feel good about buying anything now foreign owned.
It is a BIG IF.So far what I've seen from a distance I like from the RAM, I would clearly look closer before buying. It's just me at this point but I have completely lost confidence in ford with the exquisite maintenance schedule I performed and still had the entire drivetrain fail (engine to rear final drive). That said I don't have the same need for a pickup I did when I bought in '04, and I was complaining about fuel prices then.In this 10 year period gasoline has increased in cost over 100% yet eco boost delivers 20 or 30% better efficiency with quite a few headaches from what I read. This leaves me to be looking X-over or car if I expect to be able to afford to travel. If I go gas guzzler again it will probably be 4 runner.
Don't get me started on the illegal alphabet soup thieving criminals that entire sh*!tstorm could be reduced by 90% and I would GAIN sleep undoubtedly. I know how to save/spend my money better that a holier than thou bureaucracy but 100 years of socialist tendencies will not be overcome without a serious reset in perception & reality about accountability
09-12-2014, 10:20 AM
#86
Senior Member
More to it than that
That's given there perspective compression ratios where automobiles are generally from 8.5:1 - 11:1 and diesels are in the 16:1 - 17:1 category. Bump up the compression ratio with gasoline in a strong enough combustion chamber to the same as diesel and there'd be a large advantage for gas given it wouldn't combust before reaching such a high ratio, maybe with enough octane added it could. Don't know that it's ever been tried though. Gasoline is more refined that diesel, just like aviation fuel is more refined that gasoline giving it more volatility. I'm no chemist but this make good theoretical sense with all variables being the same.
Yes diesel has more energy, but it burns much slower. Which is primarily why the diesel engine typically has a much longer stroke. The slower burn over a longer piston stroke makes for more low speed torque. This is why you don't need to wind a diesel to 5 grand to get the HP.
The chief advantage to diesels is longevity, not economy. The massive engine components required lend themselves to long life and they operate at much slower speeds. As the fuel burns much cooler they have fewer issues with cooling. But they cost much more.
Most Americans care little about longevity and about the time their new car needs a wash job they are looking for something shinier. A long life diesel usually don't interest that buyer. Without high production numbers the diesel is at yet another disadvantage.
Yes it is a superior engine which comes with one hell of a big "YA BUT!"
As for aviation fuel, it is not a high performance fuel. In fact most light aircraft owners would prefer auto gas to avgas. More power and a hell of a lot cheaper. It's claim to fame is mostly quality control and purity and the fact it still contains lead to bump up the Octane rating. The FAA is working to find a substitute for the lead. Keep in mind this stuff is burned in air cooled engines made primarily out of aluminum. They are very intolerant of pre-ignition. Some low compression aircraft engines have a supplemental approval to burn auto gas and most operators are happy with it.
09-12-2014, 11:19 AM
#87
Seriously - I still loved my Ford F-150, and I actually hated to trade it in (ZERO major problems over 120,000mi - just new wheels & tires under warranty), but I bought a new vehicle. If that gives me the boot, so be it I guess...
Nothing against you, but I don't care for the dash, it's to cluttered and not easy to read. I hate the gear select ****, a really bad Idea from Chrysler. How un-truck like with only P R N D, where are the lower gears, not selectable? And coil spring rear suspension, you can have it. All measures to lighten and impress eco mined buyers and the Obama driven EPA.
The gear selector is on the steering wheel above the cruise control buttons. You've got the +/- buttons there, and the gearing shows up on the EVIC screen when you use the gear buttons.
That's not what I read. Diesel is obtained in a lower portion of the refineries distillation tower, gas up a level, and aviation at the top. I don't see gasoline engines with one of those burn-off tanks that has to be cycled from time to time, a few cats takes care of the little that's left over after the combustion process in a gas operated vehicle compared to the carbon and other byproducts left behind by the diesel. BTW, another maintenance cost in owning a modern diesel driven vehicle. Ever have a diesel pass you on the highway, I have to pull over and wait for the fumes to blow away. I hate diesels and will never own one in automotive vehicle. They stink to high hell fueling them, working on them, and driving behind one, yes the new ones to. They are more expensive to purchase, operate, and maintain, than gasoline power plants.
yeah more oil in the diesel but 10,000 mile service interval, ot least on my 08 F-250. Which thought I was wealthy when it came to fuel mileage. That was the problem with it, TERRIBLE fuel mileage!! Highway, running 70-80 mph, 13-14 at best. Didn't really need the diesel, glad its gone. People complain about 260 HP in the ram diesel! In diesels its about the low end torque not H.P. and how the torque is applied to the drive wheels. Their 8 speed tranny is made for a diesel, keeps engine at low rpms more constant in the high torque range. Therefore giving great mileage (25 highway, close to 20 city I hear) and great towing power. After all, wouldn't that be why you buy a diesel? Ford is just too stuborn over their little puppy 6 banger with two turbos blow more fuel and air through them. Don't take this as a ford bashing, I owned fords over 40 yrs, great trucks but in 2012 ford tried shoving the v-6 eco down my throat, wouldn't hardly talk to me about the 5.0 solo I walked across the street and bought a new 5.7 Ram. Great truck, power and fule mileage. Sorry ford, you drove me away, won't be back.
09-12-2014, 12:26 PM
#88
Some new information on diesels for me and some good points made. I drive on the hwy a lot and every time a diesel passes me (newer ones to) I have to slow down or stop for a snack to get some fresh air. I can still smell the stuff, it gives me a headache. I still prefer gasoline engines over diesel and vote for the solid 5.0L V8.
Q. Hey, you fuel refinery guys, why has premium fuel now been split into two categories. It all used to be Non-oxygenated now there's some other kind of premium out there. I need the non-oxy for all my outdoor power equipment, motorcycles included. Are they putting that ethanol crap in our premium now?
Q. Hey, you fuel refinery guys, why has premium fuel now been split into two categories. It all used to be Non-oxygenated now there's some other kind of premium out there. I need the non-oxy for all my outdoor power equipment, motorcycles included. Are they putting that ethanol crap in our premium now?
09-12-2014, 12:57 PM
#89
Q. Hey, you fuel refinery guys, why has premium fuel now been split into two categories. It all used to be Non-oxygenated now there's some other kind of premium out there. I need the non-oxy for all my outdoor power equipment, motorcycles included. Are they putting that ethanol crap in our premium now?
09-12-2014, 01:05 PM
#90
Senior Member
Q. Hey, you fuel refinery guys, why has premium fuel now been split into two categories. It all used to be Non-oxygenated now there's some other kind of premium out there. I need the non-oxy for all my outdoor power equipment, motorcycles included. Are they putting that ethanol crap in our premium now?
Without going off the deep end and political BS think of this... What's better for the gov't. Sell a ton more gallons of "clean burning" ethanol laced fuel which they tax every gallon on... Or, non Ethanol fuel that burns a little less clean, but cars get better mileage and less gallons of fuel are bought each year. What's better for them? There's talk about the reasoning also is because corn growers are subsidized by the gov't. Meaning, they may as well make the farmers earn their money growing product to sell to ethanol company's rather than not planting and still getting a check.
Get this, since cars are getting better mileage because of Gov't CAFE laws they made less money on fuel taxes. So..... they raised the gas tax 4 cents a gallon on us (public, at the pump) this year so they can make their lost money back. AWESOME
