Originally Posted by gopherman

I've seen quite a few get the phasers and solenoids switched out, along with the TSB reflash...the noise never went away. At least for ESPO, Scott M, and Djfl's customer, the noise went away completely. ESPO's came back, but there's nothing yet to suggest that it came back for Djfl's customer or Scott M. Also, just based on the characteristic of the noise you can tell it's the chain rattling. If you understand how phasers work, then you know that the rotor movement is going to transfer energy to the chain. The difference between a timing chain system that doesn't rattle when this happens and one that does is that the one that does doesn't have enough damping to soak up the movement. What would perform that function? The guides and the tensioners. This is basic stuff man. The phasers and solenoids won't make that noise. Period. They just won't. That is the noise of a chain brushing up against components under the timing cover...nothing else under that cover will make that noise. The TSB is meant to mask the problem, not fix it, the phasers and solenoids are legit places to look if they're inducing vibration longitudinally to the cam, but their replacement hasn't fixed a single vehicle. The tensioner theory is the one that makes the most sense mechanically and is the one that it looks like at least a couple of people have had luck with. You may think I'm grasping at straws but at least the tensioner theory is based in fact...on how timing works, Ford's VCT operating principles, and why it should be addressed which is more than I can say for you telling people to ignore it because it's harmless. I'm not trying to be a dick about it but I'm not understanding why you're telling people to not even try to get their vehicle fixed? At least for some of them, if they go in and get the tensioners replaced and the noise comes back, they may have enough leverage to ask for an extended warranty at reduced or no charge. For some, getting their vehicle in as many times for the issue and soon may mean the difference between a buyback and having to sit there and suck it up as it only gets worse. Mechanics make mistakes all the time, the difference is, when a Ford mechanic makes a mistake under warranty, it's covered. If a Ford mechanic botches a timing gear replacement (very hard to do), it's also one that is going to be obvious. The only potential problem I see are the TTY bolts on the cams...but if they're not having the phasers swapped, it doesn't matter.

As for the rest of what you had to say, I'm offering advice that people can take or leave. Whether I have the problem has no bearing on whether I know what I'm talking about or not. Again...if you understand how these systems work, it's not hard to figure out where to look. I don't have this problem in my truck but I do know a thing or two about vehicles and when I started seeing people say their dealerships were calling it normal, I joined in the conversation because it's not and this notion that it's harmless is going to lull people into thinking that it is. Then when they figure out that it's not...too late.

Originally Posted by Harry Franklin

One would only need to read the first two pages of this very thread to find reports of the TSB completely elimintaing noise only to return later. One in particualr offers no indication that it ever returned. Remind me again how that has anything to do with faulty chain tensioners and guides... I'm not going to waste my time finding the people who reported the same experience with actuator replacement.

NOT ONE SINGLE REPORTED FAILURE! NOT EVEN ONE!

Originally Posted by gopherman

Also, the one pattern with the TSB, phaser and solenoid replacements is that there's still a hint of the noise..

Originally Posted by Harry Franklin

So, you clearly didn't even re-read the first two pages of this thread. I guess you only like to read what supports your agenda? That statement couldn't be further from the truth. Several of us cleared the KAM when you suggested it a month ago. No change for us.

Originally Posted by gopherman

Also...just would like to point out...once again...that the chain most likely will never fail completely as they rarely do. But as they deteriorate and stretch, the rattling will start to send metal and nylon debris into the oiling system though and not all of it will be caught by the filter. If not fixed, it will eventually lead to severe engine damage somewhere other than under the timing cover. We'll see after awhile how these engines hold up. Definitely don't ask the dealership to fix it, I'm sure it will all work out well to ignore it.

Originally Posted by gopherman

Why would I re-read the first two pages of the thread when there are plenty of posts that say that the TSB did absolutely nothing for the noise...noticed sometimes even as people were picking up their vehicles.

Fair point on the KAM suggestion but somewhat irrelevant really. The point is...if the chain is rattling it's not because of the phasers or the solenoids...or the calibration. It's because the tensioner is not doing what it is designed to do which is to dampen the chain so that the phasers and solenoids can do what they need to do for performance and emissions. The TSB was put out to mask the noise...not to fix it.

Originally Posted by Harry Franklin

The gen 1 3.5 does not support this statement at all. Tons of those running around rattling, many driven to the point of DTC for cam/crank correlation. Have not heard one story of enigne damage from all of this alleged debris. Some people have even had the chain replaced several times, and still no failure from "debris" Where they have seen failures is from the chain breaking, and jumping time., yet we haven't heard of one single report of that from a Gen2. We service fleet trucks with 5.4's that have been cold start rattling for well over 100k miles and at 250k miles still run as good as a 5.4 can.

Originally Posted by Harry Franklin

Again, all speculation yet you continue to present it as if it were facts (unless, of course, you secretly work for Ford and have first hand knowledge of the huge rattlegate cover up that you allege)

Originally Posted by gopherman

So you're telling me that the guides on those vehicles were perfectly intact when the chains, guides, and tensioners were replaced? If not, I'd certainly want to know if there was debris in my pan. Look up the risks of a rattling timing chain, there's a lot out there. This isn't something I'm pulling out of my a**, it's why rattling timing chains are typically corrected by most mechanics when presented with the issue. If a chain is jumping time or breaking...um...it's long past the broken debris in oil stage and the cylinders, bearings, and cam journals will probably show that. The suggestion that broken guides and other contaminants is not a likely risk with a slacked chain abnormally riding against surfaces under a chain cover just shows why you should not be telling people to ignore it.

Originally Posted by gopherman

Are you still denying that the noise is the chain rattling?