Please help me unravel this mystery! So many things going wrong at once!
10-27-2017, 01:16 AM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Please help me unravel this mystery! So many things going wrong at once!
I am writing this post chronologically and hopefully concisely enough to get across what issues there are, when they started, and what's been done.
Truck problems began when:
1) I could hear a water sloshing noise in the dash on the passenger side.
2) The A/C would not work often but the air instead was coming out of the defroster on the dash.
3) Then I noticed that the radiator fluid in the reservoir was gone, filled it, and two days later it was gone again. (I should also mention that the addition of the radiator fluid seemed to alleviate the sloshing and the A/C worked better)
To diagnose the issue:
1) We cleaned the engine with engine degreaser and a slow trickle of water from the hose. Of course, covering all the electric, disconnected battery, and other engine parts.
2) Emptied the radiator and flushed it. Also, emptied the reservoir and rinsed it out. The fluid that drained from the radiator was a brown/green color (dark). * see first attached photo*
3) Drained and replaced the engine oil and changed the oil filter.
4) Even though the air filter was clean – we changed that also.
A month later:
1) For the past week or so I have noticed a slight burning oil smell when I get out of the truck after driving. I looked in the engine and never saw a sign of leakage.
2) The radiator would still drain fluid from the reservoir but not as badly or as often.
Today:
1) I had to drive about 60 miles to an appointment.
2) I noticed the engine seemed to be idling roughly when it started and that it was having a hard time accelerating.
3) When I pressed the gas pedal all the way down the truck would jump and finally accelerate. Sometimes making a clunking noise underneath me.
4) In general, the truck seemed to be running roughly.
5) The A/C that had been working well was now alternating between the defroster and front openings again.
6) The check engine light began coming on and then going off. The entire day I could not associate any movement or speed that caused the light to come on. * attachment 2 - img 2136-is when I started the truck and the light came on*
7) Half way through the first half of my drive I stopped to check the oil and radiator fluid. Surprisingly there was only a small amount of radiator fluid missing so I topped it off. The oil was low (the engine was hot) so I added a small amount to make sure it wasn’t too low.
8) Adding fluids did not resolve any issues. Although I did notice that it didn’t smell like burning oil when I stopped.
9) When I stopped at my destination I looked under the truck for signs of leakage. The a/c has dripped water underneath it for a while. However, today I also saw radiator fluid near the front of the truck and oil in 2 small areas on the ground – near what would be the center of the engine. *Images 2143-2146 are photos of the leaks that I could take by putting my phone as close to the spot on the ground and get a photo of underneath the truck)
Also:
1) This entire time the truck has never run hot according to the temperature gauge.
2) There is no sign of coolant in the engine oil or the transmission fluid.
3) The radiator fluid leaking out was bright green.
4) The battery is new but does start a little low (gauge on the lower side pointing at the N in normal) but after driving a few miles it goes up to the R point (1/2 way on the gauge). * images 2137 is when I started the truck and image 2139 is after it was running a while)
5) Oil gauge showed oil a little low but still within normal range.
6) Today is the first day that there was a visible sign of the radiator fluid or engine oil leaking.
7) I tried to take the truck to 2 auto part stores but neither one had an OBD1 to read any codes.
8) I do plan on taking it to my mechanic Tuesday but would like any opinions you may have so that it will help me know whether they are being honest or not.
Please advise....
Truck problems began when:
1) I could hear a water sloshing noise in the dash on the passenger side.
2) The A/C would not work often but the air instead was coming out of the defroster on the dash.
3) Then I noticed that the radiator fluid in the reservoir was gone, filled it, and two days later it was gone again. (I should also mention that the addition of the radiator fluid seemed to alleviate the sloshing and the A/C worked better)
To diagnose the issue:
1) We cleaned the engine with engine degreaser and a slow trickle of water from the hose. Of course, covering all the electric, disconnected battery, and other engine parts.
2) Emptied the radiator and flushed it. Also, emptied the reservoir and rinsed it out. The fluid that drained from the radiator was a brown/green color (dark). * see first attached photo*
3) Drained and replaced the engine oil and changed the oil filter.
4) Even though the air filter was clean – we changed that also.
A month later:
1) For the past week or so I have noticed a slight burning oil smell when I get out of the truck after driving. I looked in the engine and never saw a sign of leakage.
2) The radiator would still drain fluid from the reservoir but not as badly or as often.
Today:
1) I had to drive about 60 miles to an appointment.
2) I noticed the engine seemed to be idling roughly when it started and that it was having a hard time accelerating.
3) When I pressed the gas pedal all the way down the truck would jump and finally accelerate. Sometimes making a clunking noise underneath me.
4) In general, the truck seemed to be running roughly.
5) The A/C that had been working well was now alternating between the defroster and front openings again.
6) The check engine light began coming on and then going off. The entire day I could not associate any movement or speed that caused the light to come on. * attachment 2 - img 2136-is when I started the truck and the light came on*
7) Half way through the first half of my drive I stopped to check the oil and radiator fluid. Surprisingly there was only a small amount of radiator fluid missing so I topped it off. The oil was low (the engine was hot) so I added a small amount to make sure it wasn’t too low.
8) Adding fluids did not resolve any issues. Although I did notice that it didn’t smell like burning oil when I stopped.
9) When I stopped at my destination I looked under the truck for signs of leakage. The a/c has dripped water underneath it for a while. However, today I also saw radiator fluid near the front of the truck and oil in 2 small areas on the ground – near what would be the center of the engine. *Images 2143-2146 are photos of the leaks that I could take by putting my phone as close to the spot on the ground and get a photo of underneath the truck)
Also:
1) This entire time the truck has never run hot according to the temperature gauge.
2) There is no sign of coolant in the engine oil or the transmission fluid.
3) The radiator fluid leaking out was bright green.
4) The battery is new but does start a little low (gauge on the lower side pointing at the N in normal) but after driving a few miles it goes up to the R point (1/2 way on the gauge). * images 2137 is when I started the truck and image 2139 is after it was running a while)
5) Oil gauge showed oil a little low but still within normal range.
6) Today is the first day that there was a visible sign of the radiator fluid or engine oil leaking.
7) I tried to take the truck to 2 auto part stores but neither one had an OBD1 to read any codes.
8) I do plan on taking it to my mechanic Tuesday but would like any opinions you may have so that it will help me know whether they are being honest or not.
Please advise....
Last edited by DI1974; 10-27-2017 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Photos not showing
10-27-2017, 06:13 AM
#2
Senior Member
Wow, many issues. You never mention year, engine. Here's my take.
A/C staying on Defrost and switching back/forth- major vacuum leak. Check the vacuum reseivour. Looks either like a large black tin can or plastic ball. It is either leaking or its plumbing is leaking. Likely is causing your drivability issue too. Also there should be a vacuum diagram on your core support to help you. Also look for a faulty vacuum check valve in the main line for the resevour.
Oil leaks likely causing your burning smell as it drips or blows onto exhaust. Best way is to degrease enginge then start looking around for the source. Common areas would be oil pan and or valve covers.
Coolant leak(s)- Front of the enginge is usually the radiator or water pump. You can visually check radiator and the weep hole on the bottom of the water pump for seepage. Maybe pressure test coolant system and look for leaks. Loose or damaged hose clamps happen too.
Shoshing water noise is either a plugged drain for A/C or a leaking heater core. Do you sell coolant inside with the heater on? Don't waste your time with stop leak!
Finally, you can buy a code reader for the pre-OBD2 cars for around thirty dollars.
I would address the vacuum issue and the coolant leak as they may be causing the other issues to appear. Keep us posted.
A/C staying on Defrost and switching back/forth- major vacuum leak. Check the vacuum reseivour. Looks either like a large black tin can or plastic ball. It is either leaking or its plumbing is leaking. Likely is causing your drivability issue too. Also there should be a vacuum diagram on your core support to help you. Also look for a faulty vacuum check valve in the main line for the resevour.
Oil leaks likely causing your burning smell as it drips or blows onto exhaust. Best way is to degrease enginge then start looking around for the source. Common areas would be oil pan and or valve covers.
Coolant leak(s)- Front of the enginge is usually the radiator or water pump. You can visually check radiator and the weep hole on the bottom of the water pump for seepage. Maybe pressure test coolant system and look for leaks. Loose or damaged hose clamps happen too.
Shoshing water noise is either a plugged drain for A/C or a leaking heater core. Do you sell coolant inside with the heater on? Don't waste your time with stop leak!
Finally, you can buy a code reader for the pre-OBD2 cars for around thirty dollars.
I would address the vacuum issue and the coolant leak as they may be causing the other issues to appear. Keep us posted.
Last edited by raski; 10-27-2017 at 06:16 AM.
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DI1974 (11-01-2017)
10-27-2017, 09:03 AM
#3
Senior Member
Agreed with pretty much everything raski said.
Before you do ANYTHING else, even before you take it to a mechanic - get yourself an Innova 3145 ($25-30) scanner and pull the codes - or if you cannot get to a parts house to get it, use the paperclip method (see sticky thread on top of this forum).
It would also be a good idea to measure fuel pressure with a gauge just to eliminate the fuel system as a culprit for any of your drive-ability issues. We need to know your engine and year before we can tell you what the specs are.
Doesn't look like your pics are showing up.
Before you do ANYTHING else, even before you take it to a mechanic - get yourself an Innova 3145 ($25-30) scanner and pull the codes - or if you cannot get to a parts house to get it, use the paperclip method (see sticky thread on top of this forum).
It would also be a good idea to measure fuel pressure with a gauge just to eliminate the fuel system as a culprit for any of your drive-ability issues. We need to know your engine and year before we can tell you what the specs are.
Doesn't look like your pics are showing up.
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DI1974 (11-01-2017)
10-27-2017, 12:13 PM
#4
Member
Thread Starter
Sorry I left pertinent info out! I tried hard to make it easy and clear
Sorry I seemed to have left out the most important information! The truck is a 1994 Ford Flare Side 150 (but technically a 156). Engine is a 5.0.
This is also why I came to this forum first. Everything Raski said is what I've read out the issues. I wish I could re-post the photos. I am new here and accidentally originally posted this in the wrong year forum and so I just cut and pasted the content out. If you'd like to see them (one is a pic of what the drained coolant looked like, and most importantly there were 3 that I was able to jam my phone under the engine and get pics of where the oil and radiator leaking was coming from).
But again, reading up on the issue I heard vacuum problems many times and water pump. I also was told a couple years ago when the check engine light was going on however I had a car time finding the a/c drain valve. I do have horses and drive through dirt and junk often so I don't doubt there mat be gunk in the a/c drain. If anyone can point me in a better direction of where it is I can do that myself. Also, when the engine light began going on and off - especially uphill - a few years ago, that it was my O2 sensor going bad but once the codes were reset it never came back until now. Finally, I haven't had my spark plugs changed in a while and that was on my to do list. Would that matter at all with these problems?
Last, I, like many people had the lovely incident with the Ford fuel pump issue that was recalled for every year but mine! 3 months ago the back fuel pump completely died and I had it replaced and the tanks cleaned out.
I guess my main questions are why the leaking under the truck now from the oil and radiator? Should I bother with the UV ink to try and fine the source of the leaks?
Thank you for your help! This is why I came here. From the first time my gas siphoned to the back and began pouring out of the cap - this forum has been my best source of DIY help.
This is also why I came to this forum first. Everything Raski said is what I've read out the issues. I wish I could re-post the photos. I am new here and accidentally originally posted this in the wrong year forum and so I just cut and pasted the content out. If you'd like to see them (one is a pic of what the drained coolant looked like, and most importantly there were 3 that I was able to jam my phone under the engine and get pics of where the oil and radiator leaking was coming from).
But again, reading up on the issue I heard vacuum problems many times and water pump. I also was told a couple years ago when the check engine light was going on however I had a car time finding the a/c drain valve. I do have horses and drive through dirt and junk often so I don't doubt there mat be gunk in the a/c drain. If anyone can point me in a better direction of where it is I can do that myself. Also, when the engine light began going on and off - especially uphill - a few years ago, that it was my O2 sensor going bad but once the codes were reset it never came back until now. Finally, I haven't had my spark plugs changed in a while and that was on my to do list. Would that matter at all with these problems?
Last, I, like many people had the lovely incident with the Ford fuel pump issue that was recalled for every year but mine! 3 months ago the back fuel pump completely died and I had it replaced and the tanks cleaned out.
I guess my main questions are why the leaking under the truck now from the oil and radiator? Should I bother with the UV ink to try and fine the source of the leaks?
Thank you for your help! This is why I came here. From the first time my gas siphoned to the back and began pouring out of the cap - this forum has been my best source of DIY help.
10-27-2017, 12:30 PM
#5
Member
Thread Starter
I was just able to post the pics in my original post. The first is after I cleaned the engine (disconnected the battery and covered it, covered all wiring, and the important parts of the engine) Second is what the radiator fluid looked like when I drained it. Last 3 are from the leaks yesterday. I held my phone under the truck where the spots on the ground were and took blind photos.
10-27-2017, 09:35 PM
#6
Being low on coolant can cause that sloshing noise - notice it went away after you added fluid and drove it a bit to let it cycle hot and cold a few times.
You do have a coolant leak - looks like the lower rad hose or water pump maybe - doesn't matter, it's a leak and has to be fixed.
The a/c drips water because frost forms on the piping and melts when you park; that's normal.
The oil leak would most likely be gaskets or a rusty oilpan.
The coolant and oil leaks you should have looked at by a mechanic. Feel free to pay him for looking at it and take it elsewhere for a 2nd opinion and estimate if you don't feel comfortable with the first guy.
Let us know how you make out.
You do have a coolant leak - looks like the lower rad hose or water pump maybe - doesn't matter, it's a leak and has to be fixed.
The a/c drips water because frost forms on the piping and melts when you park; that's normal.
The oil leak would most likely be gaskets or a rusty oilpan.
The coolant and oil leaks you should have looked at by a mechanic. Feel free to pay him for looking at it and take it elsewhere for a 2nd opinion and estimate if you don't feel comfortable with the first guy.
Let us know how you make out.
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DI1974 (11-29-2017)
10-28-2017, 10:54 AM
#7
Member
Thread Starter
Chris1 Thank you
When the a/c issue began I had read differing opinions on here but flushing the radiator and refilling it did help. Every time I would have an issue - sure enough coolant was low.thats when I began to wonder about a larger issue. I check all my fluids after and have never had a radiator/coolant issue.
Also I agree with all of you that it’s either a hose or water pump (seems to be the consensus even before my post). From what I had also previously read through this site, it seems likely the oil pan gasket is bad. But before I tear into it we are taking it to my mechanic (who does the heavier lifting!) and have them give me an opinion. Doesn’t mean they’ll fix it but I will pay for the diagnostics and weigh my options on their cost vs parts and my time.
The truck is a ‘94 and has 170,000 miles on it. I’m sure more gaskets, etc will be breaking down soon as well! My father owned the truck previously and I don’t think it received the maintenance it should have. I know for sure I need new spark plugs (maybe wores$ I don’t know how long it was (if ever) that he changed them!
Also I agree with all of you that it’s either a hose or water pump (seems to be the consensus even before my post). From what I had also previously read through this site, it seems likely the oil pan gasket is bad. But before I tear into it we are taking it to my mechanic (who does the heavier lifting!) and have them give me an opinion. Doesn’t mean they’ll fix it but I will pay for the diagnostics and weigh my options on their cost vs parts and my time.
The truck is a ‘94 and has 170,000 miles on it. I’m sure more gaskets, etc will be breaking down soon as well! My father owned the truck previously and I don’t think it received the maintenance it should have. I know for sure I need new spark plugs (maybe wores$ I don’t know how long it was (if ever) that he changed them!
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10-28-2017, 11:10 AM
#8
Member
Thread Starter
Raski-
Thank you so much for your reply. Everything you said was almost exactly what I had found theough this forum and others. This is why I came here first. I’ve noticed every thread usually has some really great, sound advice. I also feel vindicated that I was on the right track - as a girl who works on my own truck, fixes household plumbing and electrical issues, etc... I have been on the end of a lot of mysoginistic rhetoric. For instance, the bushings broke on one door and cracked on the other so I went to a big named auto parts store and when I asked the clerk for them - he had no idea what I was talking about. Then in line a guys asked me about the truck (when it was having the fuel issues) and not to go into great detail- he basically mocked me for working on my truck. I really appreciate that everyone who has responded so far has been kind, offered great advice, and genuinely wants to help other Ford owners diagnose their issues. Last time I took my truck to the mechanic I wrote a list (similar to the one I posted) basically telling them what was wrong (but a larger issue than I could handle myself). The codes they pulled were all over the place, the had to call Ford corporate, and basically received the same conclusion I alluded to. I really can’t tank you (and everyone else for helping out). It really makes a big difference in how I approach this issue.
Thank you so much for your reply. Everything you said was almost exactly what I had found theough this forum and others. This is why I came here first. I’ve noticed every thread usually has some really great, sound advice. I also feel vindicated that I was on the right track - as a girl who works on my own truck, fixes household plumbing and electrical issues, etc... I have been on the end of a lot of mysoginistic rhetoric. For instance, the bushings broke on one door and cracked on the other so I went to a big named auto parts store and when I asked the clerk for them - he had no idea what I was talking about. Then in line a guys asked me about the truck (when it was having the fuel issues) and not to go into great detail- he basically mocked me for working on my truck. I really appreciate that everyone who has responded so far has been kind, offered great advice, and genuinely wants to help other Ford owners diagnose their issues. Last time I took my truck to the mechanic I wrote a list (similar to the one I posted) basically telling them what was wrong (but a larger issue than I could handle myself). The codes they pulled were all over the place, the had to call Ford corporate, and basically received the same conclusion I alluded to. I really can’t tank you (and everyone else for helping out). It really makes a big difference in how I approach this issue.
10-28-2017, 11:18 AM
#9
Member
Thread Starter
Also- does anyone have a good description or diagram of where the a/c drain is? I had a hard time getting that far under my truck and didn’t want to pull off the wrong part based on the minimal information I found. Also, can anyone describe how to remove it. I think I had found the plug but didn’t know if I had to pull it out, unscrew it, etc... And I don’t attempt it unless I have better info on fixing it! But as a farm girl I am positive Riski is right and that the a/c drain also needs to be checked (& very likely cleaned!!). In addditon, is there a good place for references? I have a Chiltonnguide (& the original manual for the truck) and both are missing a lot of information. Thank you.
10-29-2017, 08:24 AM
#10
Senior Member
In most cases, look where you a/c lines enter the cowl. If you look low from there, you should see a short stubby rubber hose poking out of the firewall. That is the drain. You can't remove it but a pipe cleaner or equiv. inserted in should clear it. A word of caution, don't go in too far as you can puncture the evaporator core, then you will have big problems.