Topic Sponsor
1987 - 1996 F150 Still running strong! Talk about your 8th and 9th generation Ford F150 trucks.

No start, but starts with starter fluid

 
Old 01-14-2019, 08:22 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 27
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default No start, but starts with starter fluid

1995 F-150, bone stock 5.0, Auto

Engine turns over well, but won't start. Starts right up with a small shot of starter fluid in the throttle body. After that, while it stays warm, it will start again without fluid. Runs rough when it does start.

Can't pull KOEO codes for some reason - looking into that. I have already read:
Originally Posted by Steve83 View Post
Click this & read the WHOLE caption:



(phone app link)


EDIT: Passed KOER with code 111

What I've done so far:
  • ECT/ACT sensors - since it will start no problem when engine is warm, but not when engine is cold, I gambled and replaced these thinking I wasn't getting enough extra fuel for a cold start
  • Spark - verified spark is generated at coil when distributor is turned by hand, verified spark at plug when trying to start engine, TFI looks like it was replaced with a Motorcraft unit somewhat recently.
  • Fuel Pressure - close to 40 psi at the fuel rail with vacuum removed from the regulator
  • Fuel Pumps - truck has two fuel tanks and two fuel pumps; no-start happens with both tanks (EDIT: Fuel pump is running continuously when the key is on, instead of priming and turning off like it should. I have verified both pumps aren't running at the same time, so it's not an issue with the tank selector switch.)
  • Fuel Filter - recently replaced
  • Injector Pulse - since the engine starts with a little start fluid, I think I can rule out lack of injector pulse
Anyone have any advice? Thanks in advance.

Last edited by RunninHorse; 01-22-2019 at 10:13 PM.
RunninHorse is offline  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:13 PM
  #2  
Bronco Guru
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Memphis, TN, Earth, Milky Way
Posts: 3,564
Liked 413 Times in 380 Posts
Default

If you read that one, IDK how you missed this one:


(phone app link)


Don't leave out any option ("stock" is not an option), modification, damage, repair, or history that you're aware of (what the PO told you or what you can see by THOROUGH inspection). Put all the original sensors back on, and don't disturb any more than absolutely necessary. "Replaced" doesn't tell us much - we need to know the brand, PN, & source for any part that has been replaced recently, as well as WHEN (time, miles, event) and WHY (scheduled maintenance, or what diagnostic test it failed). The fact that it runs on starting fluid & then stalls is almost the textbook diagnosis for "NO injector pulse". You can confirm that either with a "noid light" or almost any low-current 12V light (LED) with wires or terminals that can be inserted into any injector's connector without damaging the connector terminals. Or you can run a low-current 12V light from any 12V source to any injector's negative wire (the one that's NOT red), and you can tap that wire anywhere between the EEC & injector.


(phone app link)


What exactly do you mean by "Can't pull KOEO codes"? What exactly happens that shouldn't, or doesn't happen that should?

Stop fixating on the ACT/ECT - those were your blind guesses; they were not indicated by any diagnosis you've described.

You've misinterpreted your KOER results; you actually got code 111 for KOER & again for CM. If you re-read that caption more-carefully, you'll see that a '95 truck uses 3-digit codes, so it can't possibly deliver 33.
Steve83 is offline  
Old 01-15-2019, 02:06 AM
  #3  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 27
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for the info.

Engine does not stall. With starter fluid it starts and stays running. I'll check the injector pulse when starting.

KOEO does nothing at all. The same test light setup works for KOER.

Thanks for correcting the code. I forgot they repeat and should have caught that initially. I'm used to two digit codes.

RunninHorse is offline  
Old 01-15-2019, 10:53 AM
  #4  
Bronco Guru
 
Steve83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Memphis, TN, Earth, Milky Way
Posts: 3,564
Liked 413 Times in 380 Posts
Default

SIGNATURE
We don't have time to go back through your posts looking for your truck's details every time we want to answer you - they need to appear under EACH post automatically. And I'm not decoding your sticker - that's your job. I've given you everything you need so that you can make it easy for us to help you.

I missed that it stays running - that suggests borderline fuel pressure. Put a gauge on it, as this shows:


(phone app link)
Steve83 is offline  
Old 01-15-2019, 12:17 PM
  #5  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 27
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

It has a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail. With the tank I was testing with, fuel pressure was 39 when fuel pump was primed and 39 when the engine is running and the vacuum line is removed from the regulator. Those pressure readings were the same before this no-start issue began. The no-start happens with both tanks/fuel pumps.

I'll see what fuel pressure reads during cranking.

1995 F-150 EFI 5.0, Auto
RunninHorse is offline  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:19 PM
  #6  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 27
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I noticed something new once I got the truck in a quiet garage. When the key is on the fuel pump is running continuously. I hope the computer itself hasn't failed.

So far I have:
  • Checked computer fuse
  • Swapped computer relay with a known working unit
  • Swapped fuel pump relay with a known working unit, in case it was stuck on
I'm planning to:
  • Verify voltage is getting all the way to the computer
  • Verify computer's grounds
Something else; When I was trying to start the engine without starter fluid, the battery had 12.4 volts, but it wouldn't start. I charged it to 13.2 volts and it started without starter fluid twice in a row.
RunninHorse is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 12:11 AM
  #7  
Living by the OBD Code
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,428
Liked 179 Times in 164 Posts
Default

Just a random thing - I had a car once that would only start and run using starter fluid. It was the ignition module. The spark during starting was too weak to fire gasoline but starter fluid would get it going. The only reason I figured out that it was the ignition module was because I had just worked on my plugs and forgot to attach two plug wires. I knew the modules were sensitive, it was a GM HEI module, so went back to what I had just been working on. Changed the module and it was back to normal.

Anyway, one sign was a weak orange spark instead of strong and blue.
BareBonesXL is offline  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:53 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Liked 59 Times in 51 Posts
Default

Better test for spark is the system's ability to fire a spark across a super wide gap, say around 1/4 inch. Much better than the color of the spark. I use an adjustable spark tester.
raski is offline  
Old 01-22-2019, 10:57 PM
  #9  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 27
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for the feedback. I'll double check the spark and strength. I suppose it's possible the ICM isn't getting SPOUT signal.

Since the fuel pumps are running continuously with the key on, I made sure both pumps weren't running at the same time. To rule out the tank selector switch.

I tested the fuel pump relay ground circuit at the diagnostic link connector, but I'm not sure what the expected results are.
  • FP Relay Ground Circuit
    • With PCM connected, key on and off - is grounded
    • With PCM disconnected, key on - is grounded
    • With PCM disconnected, key off - not grounded
RunninHorse is offline  
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: No start, but starts with starter fluid


Contact Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: