Building the old boy - advice?
11-01-2009, 01:25 AM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Frisco, CO
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Building the old boy - advice?
Hi All,
I have a 1989 F150 that I've had since almost new (highschool) and I have decided it is time to give it some lovin. My goal is to keep it relatively stock looking, extremely reliable yet hopefully make a considerable improvement with power and looks (it is underpowered and pretty rusted).
Here's where I am now: 302, 4 spd w/granny, 4X4, low gears (I'll get the #s - 3.73??), pretty stock. Last year I bought an 88 for the body, also has a LS rear end and transfer case (motor and tranny are gone). Yesterday I bought a 351W (F4TE) and transmission out of a 96 Bronco that supposedly had 87K on it - I plan on selling the tranny.
I am hoping to keep to a $2K budget on the motor/drivetrain mods and $2K on body work (this may be a pipedream...)
So...
I beleive I have to switch to MAF. Here's an article I found that seems to lay it out pretty well http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/ne...newthread&f=28. Any thoughts? It looks relatively simple... Will it work on the 96 which I beleive to be the OBD-II? It looks like I can stay under $300 here.
As far as the motor goes, I plan on rebuilding it at sometime unless you guys recommend a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality. I was told it runs well, but I really don't want to mess with it after it's installed. I have read mixed opinions here - are the stock pistons, intake and heads good enough? I've read a lot about the GT40 setup and would guess I'm for about $500-$750 to go that route. Open to it if they're MUCH better than stock. If I tear it down, I'm assuming it has to go to the machine shop - what would I ask for? I would like to keep the work minimal in case I need to bore later - no stroking etc.
Will a ZF5 tranny work with the transfer case? I like the gearing in them, but I've heard they're loud. Any thoughts?
The 88 has a limited slip rear end. Can I just switch the gears, or do I need to swap the whole thing? I hate the drum brakes - should I upgrade to a newer rear end with discs? Seems pretty easy... I pull toys often.
Over all, I don't need to put out 500 HP or anything, just looking for a smart build plan.
Thanks for the thoughts and ideas, I appreciate any help and will post pics soon and along the way.
Ray
I have a 1989 F150 that I've had since almost new (highschool) and I have decided it is time to give it some lovin. My goal is to keep it relatively stock looking, extremely reliable yet hopefully make a considerable improvement with power and looks (it is underpowered and pretty rusted).
Here's where I am now: 302, 4 spd w/granny, 4X4, low gears (I'll get the #s - 3.73??), pretty stock. Last year I bought an 88 for the body, also has a LS rear end and transfer case (motor and tranny are gone). Yesterday I bought a 351W (F4TE) and transmission out of a 96 Bronco that supposedly had 87K on it - I plan on selling the tranny.
I am hoping to keep to a $2K budget on the motor/drivetrain mods and $2K on body work (this may be a pipedream...)
So...
I beleive I have to switch to MAF. Here's an article I found that seems to lay it out pretty well http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/ne...newthread&f=28. Any thoughts? It looks relatively simple... Will it work on the 96 which I beleive to be the OBD-II? It looks like I can stay under $300 here.
As far as the motor goes, I plan on rebuilding it at sometime unless you guys recommend a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality. I was told it runs well, but I really don't want to mess with it after it's installed. I have read mixed opinions here - are the stock pistons, intake and heads good enough? I've read a lot about the GT40 setup and would guess I'm for about $500-$750 to go that route. Open to it if they're MUCH better than stock. If I tear it down, I'm assuming it has to go to the machine shop - what would I ask for? I would like to keep the work minimal in case I need to bore later - no stroking etc.
Will a ZF5 tranny work with the transfer case? I like the gearing in them, but I've heard they're loud. Any thoughts?
The 88 has a limited slip rear end. Can I just switch the gears, or do I need to swap the whole thing? I hate the drum brakes - should I upgrade to a newer rear end with discs? Seems pretty easy... I pull toys often.
Over all, I don't need to put out 500 HP or anything, just looking for a smart build plan.
Thanks for the thoughts and ideas, I appreciate any help and will post pics soon and along the way.
Ray
11-01-2009, 03:48 AM
#2
Hi All,
I have a 1989 F150 that I've had since almost new (highschool) and I have decided it is time to give it some lovin. My goal is to keep it relatively stock looking, extremely reliable yet hopefully make a considerable improvement with power and looks (it is underpowered and pretty rusted).
Here's where I am now: 302, 4 spd w/granny, 4X4, low gears (I'll get the #s - 3.73??), pretty stock. Last year I bought an 88 for the body, also has a LS rear end and transfer case (motor and tranny are gone). Yesterday I bought a 351W (F4TE) and transmission out of a 96 Bronco that supposedly had 87K on it - I plan on selling the tranny.
Most 4wd's had 3.55 gears factory but it's a possibility it may have 3.73's. Check the tag on the rear diff cover. if it's not there grab the axle code off the door sticker and post it up.
I am hoping to keep to a $2K budget on the motor/drivetrain mods and $2K on body work (this may be a pipedream...)
You should be able to stay within budget on the engine mods if all you want is a little more pep. here is a set of GT40 heads for an awesome price. http://www.nloc.net/classifieds/show...ct/13184/cat/3
A set of underdrive pulleys with an open exhaust system will greatly improve your power as well as keep your fuel mileage stable with the mods. The GT40 heads are good heads but you may wish to either port them yourself or have it done. If you choose to do the first, here is a very good layout for you to reference. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...0Abrasives.pdf
So...
I beleive I have to switch to MAF. Here's an article I found that seems to lay it out pretty well http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/ne...newthread&f=28. Any thoughts? It looks relatively simple... Will it work on the 96 which I beleive to be the OBD-II? It looks like I can stay under $300 here.
Yes, the 96 is OBD2.
As far as the motor goes, I plan on rebuilding it at sometime unless you guys recommend a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality. I was told it runs well, but I really don't want to mess with it after it's installed. I have read mixed opinions here - are the stock pistons, intake and heads good enough? I've read a lot about the GT40 setup and would guess I'm for about $500-$750 to go that route. Open to it if they're MUCH better than stock. If I tear it down, I'm assuming it has to go to the machine shop - what would I ask for? I would like to keep the work minimal in case I need to bore later - no stroking etc.
I'm not one to rebuild but you may want to tear it all down to the shortblock.(pull intake heads oilpan etc etc but leave rotating assembly) That way you can check the wear on the cylinder walls as well as the bearings if you wish. I usually go in and replace all the gaskets, thoroughly clean the oil pump pickup or buy a new one, buy a new oil pump and buy a new waterpump.That way you know your oil pump and water pump are good and that the oil pickup is clear of sludge/debris as well as have all new gaskets. Plus, it gives you the excuse to paint it!
Will a ZF5 tranny work with the transfer case? I like the gearing in them, but I've heard they're loud. Any thoughts?
Never heard of them being loud and yes the transfer case should bolt right up. The ZF is an awesome tranny that will let you keep your low range 1st and reverse and also give you an overdrive to further improve mileage.
The 88 has a limited slip rear end. Can I just switch the gears, or do I need to swap the whole thing? I hate the drum brakes - should I upgrade to a newer rear end with discs? Seems pretty easy... I pull toys often.
I usually just swap entire axles but once again i tear it down check the bearings and throw new seals in it as well as evaluate the brake system. You can either make up your own disc conversion kit or purchase on but the drum brakes will do you just fine. The kits are pretty expensive. Don't even think about using and Explorer 8.8 since they're disc brakes. The bolt pattern is different and the axle is altogether narrower.
Over all, I don't need to put out 500 HP or anything, just looking for a smart build plan.
Thanks for the thoughts and ideas, I appreciate any help and will post pics soon and along the way.
Ray
I have a 1989 F150 that I've had since almost new (highschool) and I have decided it is time to give it some lovin. My goal is to keep it relatively stock looking, extremely reliable yet hopefully make a considerable improvement with power and looks (it is underpowered and pretty rusted).
Here's where I am now: 302, 4 spd w/granny, 4X4, low gears (I'll get the #s - 3.73??), pretty stock. Last year I bought an 88 for the body, also has a LS rear end and transfer case (motor and tranny are gone). Yesterday I bought a 351W (F4TE) and transmission out of a 96 Bronco that supposedly had 87K on it - I plan on selling the tranny.
Most 4wd's had 3.55 gears factory but it's a possibility it may have 3.73's. Check the tag on the rear diff cover. if it's not there grab the axle code off the door sticker and post it up.
I am hoping to keep to a $2K budget on the motor/drivetrain mods and $2K on body work (this may be a pipedream...)
You should be able to stay within budget on the engine mods if all you want is a little more pep. here is a set of GT40 heads for an awesome price. http://www.nloc.net/classifieds/show...ct/13184/cat/3
A set of underdrive pulleys with an open exhaust system will greatly improve your power as well as keep your fuel mileage stable with the mods. The GT40 heads are good heads but you may wish to either port them yourself or have it done. If you choose to do the first, here is a very good layout for you to reference. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...0Abrasives.pdf
So...
I beleive I have to switch to MAF. Here's an article I found that seems to lay it out pretty well http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/ne...newthread&f=28. Any thoughts? It looks relatively simple... Will it work on the 96 which I beleive to be the OBD-II? It looks like I can stay under $300 here.
Yes, the 96 is OBD2.
As far as the motor goes, I plan on rebuilding it at sometime unless you guys recommend a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality. I was told it runs well, but I really don't want to mess with it after it's installed. I have read mixed opinions here - are the stock pistons, intake and heads good enough? I've read a lot about the GT40 setup and would guess I'm for about $500-$750 to go that route. Open to it if they're MUCH better than stock. If I tear it down, I'm assuming it has to go to the machine shop - what would I ask for? I would like to keep the work minimal in case I need to bore later - no stroking etc.
I'm not one to rebuild but you may want to tear it all down to the shortblock.(pull intake heads oilpan etc etc but leave rotating assembly) That way you can check the wear on the cylinder walls as well as the bearings if you wish. I usually go in and replace all the gaskets, thoroughly clean the oil pump pickup or buy a new one, buy a new oil pump and buy a new waterpump.That way you know your oil pump and water pump are good and that the oil pickup is clear of sludge/debris as well as have all new gaskets. Plus, it gives you the excuse to paint it!
Will a ZF5 tranny work with the transfer case? I like the gearing in them, but I've heard they're loud. Any thoughts?
Never heard of them being loud and yes the transfer case should bolt right up. The ZF is an awesome tranny that will let you keep your low range 1st and reverse and also give you an overdrive to further improve mileage.
The 88 has a limited slip rear end. Can I just switch the gears, or do I need to swap the whole thing? I hate the drum brakes - should I upgrade to a newer rear end with discs? Seems pretty easy... I pull toys often.
I usually just swap entire axles but once again i tear it down check the bearings and throw new seals in it as well as evaluate the brake system. You can either make up your own disc conversion kit or purchase on but the drum brakes will do you just fine. The kits are pretty expensive. Don't even think about using and Explorer 8.8 since they're disc brakes. The bolt pattern is different and the axle is altogether narrower.
Over all, I don't need to put out 500 HP or anything, just looking for a smart build plan.
Thanks for the thoughts and ideas, I appreciate any help and will post pics soon and along the way.
Ray
Last edited by flareside_thunder; 11-01-2009 at 03:50 AM.
11-01-2009, 08:50 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Long Beach Calimexifornia
Posts: 58,557
Received 1,162 Likes
on
647 Posts
A mild camshaft will help you out also and help to open up some more power but you must figure out what other add ons you're going to do before you decide on the camshaft. Good luck with your build and if you have any more questions I will do my best to answer.
11-01-2009, 09:30 AM
#5
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Frisco, CO
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the awesome help Flareside - I think you're right on!
I have a local guy (2 hrs away) that has the p heads with new headers from a fox body for $200. The package is very tempting if it would work. I have a buddy who works in a metal shop - could we bent them if needed?
With the top end build option, do I need to have any machine work done to the block or would I just send the heads in.
Thanks again, first time builder here.
Ray
I should have some starter pics today.
I have a local guy (2 hrs away) that has the p heads with new headers from a fox body for $200. The package is very tempting if it would work. I have a buddy who works in a metal shop - could we bent them if needed?
With the top end build option, do I need to have any machine work done to the block or would I just send the heads in.
Thanks again, first time builder here.
Ray
I should have some starter pics today.
11-01-2009, 10:33 AM
#6
If the heads didn't come with a set of headers I'd say pass on them because finding headers for them is such a big PITA. I'm fairly certain that the header outlets are not in the same position that the truck's manifolds are if they are shorty headers. If they are then the bends you'll need to do to make them work with your factory wye pipe will be excessive to make it fit. The block will be fine the heads would be the only thing I'd send in. Given that those heads may be aluminum, I'd have them checked for cracks and warping. I look forward to pics the next time I get on. Good luck and also consider a head stud kit from ARP, it'd be a good investment in terms of strength.
11-01-2009, 10:19 PM
#7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Frisco, CO
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Flareside - you rock. So many questions... I will let you know them as they come up.
Right now I'm trying to put together parts - heads, exhaust, rings vs pistons, intake - upper and lower - machine work etc.
I really appreciate the help. I think you're original email was WAY more than I expected. On top of that, I thought the advice was great and well received.
Thinking out loud...
My 302 has oil pressure issues, with 160K in it - granted it's an 89... is there any way to "revamp" the lower end to avoid early pressure problems?
Do I need a different intake?
If so, to what?
Should I upgrade the ignition? Full $400 kit or will a coil/dist/wire/plug upgrade be enough?
I have a chance to grab headers and dual exhaust for $200. I comes out in front of the wheel on both sides, which I don't really like, can I have them extended? Should I bother with them?
I am trying to pick up the heads you recommended (thanks for the tip). How much work should I get done to them?
When looking at the rear end, I think you're right about swapping out the entire axle, should I look for one with LS or can I swap in the unit from my 88?
Sorry for all of the questions, I've been reading up for 8 months on this, but reading doesn't touch experience.
Thanks so much!!!
Ray
P.S. I didn't get a chance to get pics today - hope to have them tomorrow.
Right now I'm trying to put together parts - heads, exhaust, rings vs pistons, intake - upper and lower - machine work etc.
I really appreciate the help. I think you're original email was WAY more than I expected. On top of that, I thought the advice was great and well received.
Thinking out loud...
My 302 has oil pressure issues, with 160K in it - granted it's an 89... is there any way to "revamp" the lower end to avoid early pressure problems?
Do I need a different intake?
If so, to what?
Should I upgrade the ignition? Full $400 kit or will a coil/dist/wire/plug upgrade be enough?
I have a chance to grab headers and dual exhaust for $200. I comes out in front of the wheel on both sides, which I don't really like, can I have them extended? Should I bother with them?
I am trying to pick up the heads you recommended (thanks for the tip). How much work should I get done to them?
When looking at the rear end, I think you're right about swapping out the entire axle, should I look for one with LS or can I swap in the unit from my 88?
Sorry for all of the questions, I've been reading up for 8 months on this, but reading doesn't touch experience.
Thanks so much!!!
Ray
P.S. I didn't get a chance to get pics today - hope to have them tomorrow.
Trending Topics
11-02-2009, 12:10 AM
#8
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Frisco, CO
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's a cheap kit I found on ebay - any thoughts?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ford-...6d1ad1fQQitemZ
160370371871QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAc cessories
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ford-...6d1ad1fQQitemZ
160370371871QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAc cessories
11-03-2009, 12:08 AM
#10
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Frisco, CO
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GT40 heads should be shipped this week, hopefully I'll have them by the end of next week. Went down to denver to pick up a stand, efan and rear end (disc brakes). I hope to prep the space tomorrow.
Flareside - If I get the zf5 tranny, should I rebuild it? Don't know the milage.
Thanks,
Ray
Flareside - If I get the zf5 tranny, should I rebuild it? Don't know the milage.
Thanks,
Ray