Gene K

Okay, I'm likely to offend some of the safety ***** but feel free to fire back. I've got thick skin.

I absolutely hate the way consumer vehicles are rated. To me it makes no sense.

Commercial Rating:
I order a truck with 40,000 tandem drives and 12,000 lb steers and a trailer with 40,000 trailer tandems.... and guess what the rating is...

92,000 lb

625 bhp and 4.33 Gears?

92,000 lb

250 bhp and 2.65 Gears?

92,000 lb

So why on earth don't they rate consumer trucks the same way? Is it because they are slapping a bed on a car and pretending it's a truck?

It really doesn't take 400 HP to pull a 10,000 lb trailer.
Horsepower and Axle Gearing is a choice not a requirement. Horsepower is how fast you want to go not how much do you want to pull.

PS I have not and do not intend to tow more than Ford rates my truck at. I think 12700 GCWR is more than enough for a low capacity non-cooled 8.8 Axle anyway. With a 3300 Axle Rating and 6500 GVWR it would be hard to get much past it anyway.

untraceable

Yeah, if you ask me, the limiting factor of these F150's isn't the motors, it's the F150 part.

My favorites are seeing pictures of 9,000lb 35' campers on a 145" screw with 1400lb payload and the owner saying "didn't break a sweat" or "forgot it was back there"

SixShooter14

Does anyone here think it's the power/tq that limits these trucks?

From what I can tell, the limiting factors are (and have been for a few years now)
Braking
Cooling (engine, tranny, and diff)
stability (having a trailer that is too much heavier than the truck)
spring cap.
structural (frame, hitch, axle, wheels, and the bolts than join them)

j20brett

Agree with limiting factors you mentioned, these engines are capable of pulling pretty much anything you can hook up to. Braking, cooling, etc are now the limiting factors.

SixShooter14

one more limit is classification ratings.

Isn't there a maximum GVWR that a 1/2 ton truck can have? something like 8500#? note that most trucks gvwr isn't anywhere close to that. most are in the 7k# range. So at this time, this isn't a severely limiting factor.

So that is going to limit your payload and subsequently the hitch-supported towing cap.

Gene K

Sorry, I was in a bad mood.

Buddy, has a 2.7EB 4x2 122 3.15 with a Factory Installed Hitch and Ford Trailer Tow guides 2015, 2016 or 2017 do not show the combination. According to everything we can find out it has no GCWR. We can't even get a "Towing Not
Recommended Statement"!

Best we can get from Customer Service is default to the 5000 lb Max Trailer Tow for trucks without towing package.

3.5EB 4x2 141 3.15 is 10,600 lb Towing
2.7EB 4x2 122 3.31 is 7600 lb Towing.
Without Tow Package is 5000 lb Max

Does using 5000 lb for the 2.7EB 122 3.15 with Factory Installed Hitch (No Tow Package) seem reasonable? It seems to do an excellent job with a 4500 lb open car trailer. It doesn't seem to pull any higher trans temp than my truck with the Tow Package.
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MrWizzard550

“I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened.”-Mark Twain

Great white

iTrader: (1)

With the new consumer trucks, the limiting factor is how they perform on the SAE J2807 tow test.

It assesses lots of factors under a towing load, but you can break it down into a couple broad categories:

Acceleration (both flat and on grade)
Handling (understeer, sway, etc)
Braking (self explanatory)

In a nutshell, it sets target parameters and the truck has to meet them or it gets downgraded in it's weight until it can.

So a truck may be able to haul 15,000 lbs up to speed, but if it can't control it or stop it, the weight rating gets lowered until it can.

This is why you can get a truck capable of towing a 9,000 lb 35 foot trailer "like it's not there", but only rated for 5,000 lbs. It may not be able to stop it or it may not achieve the steering or sway performance....

Payload is what payload is. The test specifies curb weight, plus 150 lb driver, a 150 lb passenger and 100 lbs to account for hitch and accessories. So you could very well end up with an F150 towing 11,600 and still be within payload. But you're likely right at the limit. OEM's don't care about that. As long as they're within the testing specs (even if it's not realistic for real world scenarios) they can claim the rating and advertising bragging rights.

SAE also doesn't get a bunch of trucks out there and test them all. The OEM's do it. They are also allowed to "simulate" towing demands though a chassis dyno.

It's all listed in J2807. Have a look, I've attached the newest 2016 copy. It's hard to find on the net and most places want you to pay for it...

Gene K

Well in reality a 1/2 Ton doesn't exist. It started out as a convenient way referring to trucks rated between 1000 lb and 1499 lb Payload . By the original definition only the very heaviest optioned of standard GVWR F150 would be a Half Ton and some HDPP Trucks would be 1.5 Ton Trucks.

I think what you are thinking about is the 8600 GVWR cutoff between different EPA Emissions Standards.

USDOT Truck Classifications:
Class 1 - 0 to 6000 lb (Lightest F150 is 6010 lb)
Class 2 - 6001 to 10000 lb
Class 3 - 10001 to 14000 lb
Class 4 - 14001 to 16000 lb
Class 5 - 16001 to 19500 lb
Class 6 - 19501 to 26000 lb

So all new F150 are class 2 but you can buy a F250 rated at 9900 lb that is as well.

F550 tops out at 19500 lb so Class 5.

Gene K

But J2807 has one huge flaw. It won't allow you to over rate but you can under rate. Weight is never added because a truck performs to well unless it's at manufacturers preference.

Does anyone really think a 2.7EB 3.73 EBPP is really 2400 lb under a 3.5EB 6R80 3.15 and yet only 900 lb over a 3.5 Ti-VCT?

An argument could be made engine braking is the issue and yet the 3.5 Ti-VCT is rated lower.

This is why I would like to see them rate the truck based on Chassis, Brakes and Axles. Put enough cooling in to handle the rating and let us choose power and gears.

Trucks need to be geared differently depending on operating terrain.

PS we are getting closer to that with the 2017 3.5EB at least on gearing vs tow rating.