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Old 02-10-2014, 12:20 PM   #1
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Default Tow ratings: Industry standard J2808 will be implemented in 2015 model half tons

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Originally Posted by Automotive News

February 10, 2014 - 12:01 am ET

DETROIT -- After a two-year delay, the Detroit 3 say they will use a common standard to rate the towing capacities of their light-duty pickups.

The standard will allow shoppers to compare accurately the towing capability of pickups. It also should reduce confusing claims from automakers.

The marketing confusion won't end, though, because the standard applies only to light-duty pickups. For heavy-duty pickups, automakers will still rate their vehicles with their own standards…
Ford has said all along that it will implement J2807 for the next redesign of their trucks. The F-150 will be redesigned for the 2015 model year, with an aluminum frame.

That won't stop folks from overloading their F-150s, but at least you'll know that the tow rating claims by GM, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, and Ram for their half-ton pickups will all be based on the same criteria.

I suspect that the J2807 standard applies only to "tow rating", which is an indication of pulling power and ignores payload capacity. The problem with half-ton pickups is that they run out of payload capacity for hitch weight (GVWR minus wet and loaded truck weight) long before they get close to the tow rating (GCWR minus empty truck weight).

So don't rely on the tow ratings, whether the current number or the J2808 numbers, if you don't want to be overloaded when you cross the CAT scale.

My F-150 has a tow rating of 8,400 pounds, but I'm overloaded over the GVWR of the truck with my TT that weighs only 4,870 pounds when wet and loaded for the road.
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Last edited by smokeywren; 02-10-2014 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:39 PM   #2
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I still think they will play games with the ratings. They will test to determine max ratings then publish (lower) numbers that work for their marketing purposes to create differentiation between engines and models.

The best part will be when people start trying to compare the numbers for current and past trucks to the new ratings in an attempt to claim their old 'whatever' is better than the new.
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Old 02-10-2014, 02:57 PM   #3
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i have a payload if 1264..one day i see my self with a 5k or 6k pound loaded trailer..i think my truck will handle weight just fine (tow cap 9300) and the only overage will be tounge weight which i envision being about 650 or so pounds
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:31 PM   #4
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They really need to do tow ratings as GCWR-GVWR. That way payload would be part of the consideration. Even if they did not want to do all the payload, they should consider half as part of the maximum tow rating: GCWR - (GVWR-(1/2 * payload) = Tow rating.

My truck:
GVWR: 8200
Curb Weight: 8200-2428(payload by the little yellow sticker) = 5772lbs
Tow Rating: 11300
GCWR: 17100

17100-5772 = 11328 lbs

Who is driving the truck? I don't know a single legal driver that weighs 28 lbs.

It would be quite laughable if it weren't quite so frustrating...
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:44 PM   #5
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Aluminum panels....not frame.

I'll be curious to see how this pans out in use. Having standards across competitors is a great tool for customer to use when shopping, but only of the actually reflect how vehicles are used and it's not easily games. Since it is called “Performance Requirements for Determining Tow-Vehicle Gross Combination Weight Rating and Trailer Weight Rating,” it's probably worth looking at.
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:47 PM   #6
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Agree, Tow Rating is a waste of time (except maybe for low-side gravel trailers) for "half-tons".

SAE should devise a standard for the truck's GVWR.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11screw50 View Post
I still think they will play games with the ratings. They will test to determine max ratings then publish (lower) numbers that work for their marketing purposes to create differentiation between engines and models.

The best part will be when people start trying to compare the numbers for current and past trucks to the new ratings in an attempt to claim their old 'whatever' is better than the new.
I agree. I think they are playing games. Ford will say this configuration is good for xyz lbs and that will be tested. It will be pass/fail but ford will know it is going to pass because they already tested it. No heavier tests will be performed.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:54 PM   #8
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The problem is that the payload capacity is different for every truck. Depending on the options, the curb weight could be different for just about each truck delivered.

The "Tow Rating" is easy to determine for each model - probably based mainly on the hitch capacity, brakes, maybe axle ratings, and perhaps some other stuff that has to do with just simply "pulling".

However, I don't think the payload capacity comes into the equation for the Tow Rating.

Like smokeywren says:

Quote:
I suspect that the J2807 standard applies only to "tow rating", which is an indication of pulling power and ignores payload capacity.
I think it would be very difficult to come up with a standard that includes payload capacity, which can be very different for two trucks of the same model - one bare bones, and one maxed out with options.

Just MHO, YMMV!

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Old 02-11-2014, 07:16 PM   #9
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Agree about payload. That's why they should standardize GVWR.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:57 PM   #10
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IMO, every truck coming off the line should have the following on the door sticker along with axle weights:
GVWR
Factory/Curb weight
Payload capacity including occupants
GVWC
Max tongue weight
Max trailer GVWR
If they tell you the max GVWR of the trailer you can tow there would be less likely hood of going over weight. The guy buying a trailer with a dry weight of 8500 lbs and a GVWR of 10000 would know right away they have a problem if the max trailer GVWR was listed. The max trailer GVWR should be equal to Max tongue weight divided by 13% (the approxamaite tongue weight ratio on most standard RVs & a much better refernence point than the minimum 10% tongue weight)
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:57 PM
 
 
 
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